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Gollevainen

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Blayne, you've made your playing style in the flesh as part of our AARs then you should consider that many experienced one who has "read" such "AARs" in the past will have weigthy things to say :D:D


What's with the kicking of somebody from TS? -Facts first, please, then conjectures and propaganda...
Facts: Blayne keeps kicking people out of TS when he feels like :(
The reasons for it are naturally propaganda on the otherside of the argument as soon as the words are spitted out ;)
 

Irsh Faq

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I foresee a partitioning of Tripoli by Kongo and Ethiopia. Probably not in one war, but eventually. Eventually...
Don't hold your breath. Like Oddman said: peace with the neighbors is the best policy for us Africans.

I've got about enough land to keep me busy for a while, anyway - it'll be more a game of defending what I've got than getting more, because I'm running up against the limit of what I have enough magistrates for, and African land is too poor to be worth having if you can't build it up (I can count the provinces in mainland Ethiopia with 6 or more basetax on the fingers of one hand, and there isn't a single province in my entire realm that would have more than 1,000 manpower without the effects of buildings).
 
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Emperor Ike

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I foresee a partitioning of Tripoli by Kongo and Ethiopia. Probably not in one war, but eventually. Eventually...
Now don't be scared but in a moment an squad of Tripolian special forces armed to the teeth will come trough your windows and take you to a secret location in Isla Sorna. Cooperate and you will be fine.
 

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So as an addition to Oddman's statistics and commentary, I thought it would be interesting to see where people are getting their trade income, or to put it differently, who is screwing exploiting enlightening through the free exchange of goods and ideas whom.

Ahem. Each row in this table shows the sources of the trade income of one human tag. For example, Croatia is getting 259 yearly from trade within Croatia itself; 69 from English COTs; 578 from Spanish COTs; and so on. So, if you wanted to find out which countries could do you the most damage by an embargo, you would look down the left side until you found your tag, then go along the row looking for high numbers. Conversely, if you wanted to see which nations you have by the short hairs in the sense of being able to damage their income, you look along the top row until you find your tag, then look down your column for high numbers. So we see that the Khanate, for example, is effectively invulnerable to embargos, which should not surprise anyone since I have practically no trade income anyway. My main trading partner is my own COT at Jasagdu, closely followed by my ally Qin. Conversely the nation I could do most damage to is Tibet, which gains 152 ducats yearly from my single COT; not a huge amount, as Tibet is well diversified.

Some general observations:

  • Europeans trade mainly with Europeans and Asians with Asians, but there is more exploitation enlightenment going from Europe to Asia than vice-versa, as is only to be expected.
  • If Croatia were cut off from all European trade (except its own COT) it would lose 802 ducats, or about half its trading income; if cut off from all Asian COTs, it would lose 592 ducats, about one-third.
  • The biggest traders are the most powerful nations, Germany and Spain; no surprises there.
  • In absolute terms, the shortest and curliest hairs are possessed by Spain, which could lose a whopping 758 ducats yearly if Bavaria cuts it off; it could retaliate almost as effectively, by embargoing 720 ducats' income for Bavaria. However, in each case this represents only one-fifth of the total trading revenue of each state; in relative terms, USA has a better grip on Quebec, with almost half the latter state's trading revenue coming from US COTs. If we stick to major traders, the best relative grips are Spain's on Croatia, about one-third; and Bavaria's on England, another third-or-so.
  • Persia does surprisingly badly on trade, worse even than Novgorod, which is ignoring trade as a deliberate strategy, the better to concentrate on the army. Gujarat also seems surprisingly backward on this point. When the likes of the Khanate, with the worst trade tech in the game, has four times your trading income, you know you're Doing It Wrong.
  • Khmer, Punjab, and Malaysia are all artifically suppressed by being subbed/ghosted this past session.
  • Tibet does very well, best among the ROTW nations, and is also very diversified, getting no more than one-sixth of its income from any one nation.
  • The Caliphate (TRP) has a reasonable trade income overall, but almost all of it is from domestic COTs.

Code:
      ETH   TIB   QUE   PUN   TRP   USA   JAP   KON   QIN   CRO   ENG   BAV   CAT   NOV   PER   KHA   KHM   MSA   GUJ   TOT  
ETH   171     0     0    51   100     0     0    44     0     0     0     0     0     0    63     0     0     0     0   428  ETH  
TIB   165   172     0    83   164     0    35     0   191     0     0     0     0     0    20   152   107   118     0  1209  TIB  
QUE     0     0   168     0     0   144     0     0     0     0     0    19     0     0     0     0     0     0     0   332  QUE  
PUN     0     0     0    31     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0    31  PUN  
TRP    84     0     0     0   435     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0   519  TRP  
USA     0     0   159     0     0   228     0     0     0     0     0   214   239     0     0     0     0     0     0   840  USA  
JAP     0    10     0     0     0     0    88     0    38     0     0     0     0     0     0     0    21     0     0   157  JAP  
KON   216     0     0     0   127     0     0   217     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0   128   688  KON  
QIN     0   131     0     0     0     0     0     0   255     0     0     0     0     0     0    23    82     0     0   491  QIN  
CRO     0   111     0     0    57     0   151     0    70   259    69     0   578    98     0   131    23     0   106  1652  CRO  
ENG     0     0   109     0   194   188     0     0   154    73   147   629   257   208     0     0     0   216     0  2174  ENG  
BAV     0     0   296     0   262     0   174     0   214   198   159   783   720   225   101     0     0   293    98  3521  BAV  
CAT   291     0   329     0   292   340   194     0     0    88   177   758   962     0     0     0     0   326     0  3759  CAT  
NOV     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0   184     0     0     0     0     0   184  NOV  
PER     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0    74     0     0     0     0    74  PER  
KHA     0    46     0    44     0     0     0     0    95     0     0     0     0     0     0   101     0     0     0   285  KHA  
KHM     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0    47     0     0    47  KHM  
MSA     0     0     0    14     0     0     0     0    20   154     0   237    86     0     0   131     0   204     0   846  MSA  
GUJ     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0    70    70  GUJ  
TOT   928   470  1062   224  1631   900   642   261  1036   771   552  2640  2842   714   259   538   280  1157   401     0  TOT
 

Hannibal X

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I can't believe Falador is Quebec again. Will Canada be destroyed in nuclear fire just as Africa was?

Question about UK- are the rulers still Finnish or have they gone English/Danish at this point?

And Africa will get very... testy in the coming years. Even when Africa was united, it stood little chance against stronger European and Asian powers (last game). Hell, ulmont never stopped regretting giving America to Varyar. I think Africa needs to be united or needs to expand quickly into other areas. Kongo could conceivably colonize with a good navy, and Ethiopia, with luck and Asian friends, could try and take India or the South Pacific.

Finally, all hail the Roman Khan, Kayser and Khagan of All the Mongols! I also root for Rasta Ethiopia and the Germans.
 

Irsh Faq

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England is English and has Norwegian, Swedish, and Irish accepted.

Even when Africa was united, it stood little chance against stronger European and Asian powers (last game). Hell, ulmont never stopped regretting giving America to Varyar.
Actually, an Africa united under one power would be much weaker than it is with three cooperating powers, due to magistrate constraints. IN, which is what they were playing last campaign, didn't really present any sort of disincentive to growing your empire as big as you possibly could; DW does, because if you're too big you won't have enough magistrates to properly develop your realm.

That said,

Ethiopia, with luck and Asian friends, could try and take India
We're already there, the blue in the southern tip of India and the offshore islands is yours truly. The chunks to the north are Tripoli and Kongo.

I also root for Rasta Ethiopia
It will be an interesting century for sure. I think I managed to do pretty well in the 1400s, but the 1500s present some real challenges; Ethiopia has smaller forcelimits and lower-tax land (the one being due to the other) than many of its potential rivals.
 
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Gollevainen

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I can't believe Falador is Quebec again. Will Canada be destroyed in nuclear fire just as Africa was?
Killed with fire, propably yes. But if such unfortunate indeed comes I'm not going to wait untill nuclear ones :D

Question about UK- are the rulers still Finnish or have they gone English/Danish at this point?
The orginal plan was to convert as english, but the regening of Dôn's was so shakcy starter that Once I got first english king, to get english heir too too long and offcourse I got king dying in hunting accident + realm durress at top of it to prevent the anglication in CK.
 
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BootOnFace

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Don't hold your breath. Like Oddman said: peace with the neighbors is the best policy for us Africans.

I've got about enough land to keep me busy for a while, anyway - it'll be more a game of defending what I've got than getting more, because I'm running up against the limit of what I have enough magistrates for, and African land is too poor to be worth having if you can't build it up (I can count the provinces in mainland Ethiopia with 6 or more basetax on the fingers of one hand, and there isn't a single province in my entire realm that would have more than 1,000 manpower without the effects of buildings).
Interesting. But unless you have ~60 provinces, then you aren't developing as much as possible. It appears you're in for the long haul and the late game will probably be very quiet, considering the loss of buildings upon conquest. This can been seen even now, with players scrambling to get territory while they have the time and magistrates to build it up.

In Vicky 2, population is everything(as in 1) and Africa will probably have a higher population than the Americas at conversion. Colonization will be paramount in the later game, adding millions to both Ethiopia and Kongo. Tripoli with have only the Sahara to expand into. By the end, though, American democracies will be in the top rankings for population. Just by civilizing China in V2, you boost the population of the New World by a good 100-200 million. With an entirely civilized world, American nations will have insane populations, probably numbering in the hundreds of millions. I foresee a mass change of governments to republics and a great migration of capitals to the New World in the 19th century.
 

Gollevainen

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we are not using the Vannilla V2 population values but instead we try our best to convert our Eu3 vise "population" values to the conversion. Needless to say, all mega-gampaings I have played sofar have always had atleast 25% of their high enterteining drama going on in the Vicky conversion thread about chinese (asian) populations. Parrot stamp to those who can quess what sort of conversion our current chinese player is advocating :D:D
 

Emperor Ike

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[*] The Caliphate (TRP) has a reasonable trade income overall, but almost all of it is from domestic COTs.
[/list]

Well someone has stopped sending my merchants to foreign CoTs. And it aint me.
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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Stop the personal insults NOW. This is just the most recent of many posts like this one telling you to keep the insults down and the thread on topic. This is my last warning: Stop it. I will close the thread.

PDMA, or Public Discussion of Moderator Actions is also against the rules.
 
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Emperor Ike

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You are not embargo'ing anybody, are you? -I mean, could it have been done by the AI or sub, while you where away?
Well I was refering to the sub =D

And please don't take our right to discuss about Perth Dance Music Awards.

But then in to the subject again Egypt will become the most powerful trading empire there is.
 

BootOnFace

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we are not using the Vannilla V2 population values but instead we try our best to convert our Eu3 vise "population" values to the conversion. Needless to say, all mega-gampaings I have played sofar have always had atleast 25% of their high enterteining drama going on in the Vicky conversion thread about chinese (asian) populations. Parrot stamp to those who can quess what sort of conversion our current chinese player is advocating :D:D
I don't believe in using vanilla populations, but probably 50-50 historical vs "skill". The European nations get huge advantages due to history and the Asian and African countries should get their historical advantages.
 

OrangeYoshi

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I don't believe in using vanilla populations, but probably 50-50 historical vs "skill". The European nations get huge advantages due to history and the Asian and African countries should get their historical advantages.
European nations don't get any advantages due to history.

We're also using a formula that gives far less than 50% historical populations, as even that high a number is crazy.
 

Gollevainen

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There are fraction of the players that support full-skill based distribution, including me, and I've always been in assumption that such would be the majority of our players.


Of Egypt, it was subbed last week by Migthy G who propably didn't regard trading as so egyptian way of getting money
 

BootOnFace

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European nations don't get any advantages due to history.

We're also using a formula that gives far less than 50% historical populations, as even that high a number is crazy.
The Euro nations get their CK empires. They also start off westernized.
 

oddman

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The Euro nations get their CK empires.
Tell that to Beamed (RIP Sicily), Orago (RIP Poland), Jakalo (RIP Western Roman Empire), Kolibri (RIP Denmark), Ike/Carillon (RIP Loire), KoM (RIP Eastern Roman Empire). No, sir, the CK empires are not a given boon of the CK nations - those are hard-fought achievements, not in any way giveaways. (Well, except for Golle's empire, which he inherited from Kolibri, perhaps - but he gets lots of points for sheer determination, and hanging 'round in Finland for like centuries.)
 

Gollevainen

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(Well, except for Golle's empire, which he inherited from Kolibri, perhaps - but he gets lots of points for sheer determination, and hanging 'round in Finland for like centuries.)
Sometimes charm is most effective than military power ;)

Also, don't take missconception about CK. It was the game of dynasties and the hard struggle to make up the Dynastical Glory wich set out most of the parameters to Eu3 start ups. As it was decided by our "wise", fruits of this struggle's went to Asia and America, leaving most of the european nations to setle for leftovers.

Also CK was a game where one's empire could fall simply do ill-luck and bad timing of the regular trolling-features that game could trhow upon everyone. ROTW in here instead all started in heavenly positions with god-kings and tech and slider lead to europeans.
 
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