Darkest Hour December Special - December 22nd

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Cybvep

Field Marshal
May 25, 2009
8.465
127
(...) think that Hitler was a race-crazy warmongerer who would never stop and would conquer practically all of Europe and lead it from Berlin (...)
Then who was he? A visionary and a patriot? He actually did conquer most of Europe BTW and did quite a lot of bad-things-which-we-are-not-supposed-to-discuss.
 

unmerged(59604)

Second Lieutenant
Aug 5, 2006
189
2
Well, it's true that the Nazis wanted to create some kind of European Union (and indeed many Nazis like Goebbels envisioned Europe to be unified by the year 2000), but you seem to think that Hitler was a race-crazy warmongerer who would never stop and would conquer practically all of Europe and lead it from Berlin.
Hitler wanted to conquer the world for the "Aryan race" and commit genocide against the "subhumans". This has been proven time and time again by various historians of merit such as Weinberg, Hillgruber, Fest etc. Hitler's ultimate goal was to wage a total war for world hegemony against the USA after the war in Europe had been finished.

It's a completely unrealistic option for the Germans to colonize everything you say was planned to be annexed. Already with the East alone the Germans had centuries of Germanization and pacification to do to make the region a core part of Greater Germany. They simply didn't have the resources to maintain control over all of Europe without giving the local people more self-governance. This was already done during the war in Russia and the Balkans.
Of course it's megalomanical, but it is what the Nazis intended to do. You can't dispute that. The documentation is clear on this issue.

Self-governance was given as a last ditch effort to recruit manpower when the war had already been lost.

I don't claim Speer's memoirs are fiction. The book claims that Hitler said that the new Berlin will be called the world capital "Germania" (Welthaupstadt Germania), and THAT is total fiction. Hitler never said such a thing.

"I really believe that by re-naming Berlin the capital of our Reich "Germania", we would give very considerable impetus to the movement. The name Germania for the capital of the Reich in its new representative form would be very appropriate, for it would give to every member of the German community, however far away from the capital he may be, a feeling of unity and closer membership. There would be no technical difficulty about re-naming Berlin, as we can see from the Germanisation of Gdynia into Gotenhafen and the changing of the name of Lodz into Litzmannstadt." Hitler, Tischgespräche

"Berlin wird als Welthauptstadt nur mit dem alten Ägypten, Babylon oder Rom vergleichbar sein! Was ist London, was ist Paris dagegen!" Hitler,Monologe im Führerhauptquartier

I'm sorry, but you're wrong

Really? Funny how in the quote you left out the bit where I gave a clear example of how countless book-making historians have made huge errors on something as simple as political borders. Professional historians too are just people and they make tons of errors.
Historiography of the academic level doesn't have such errors. There is a difference between books intended for the average reader and material for the academic world.

Again, you seem to think that Hitler was a warmonger with no end to his conquests. Amusingly enough, and I have to mention this since we're talking about his plans now, he planned to retire to his hometown of Linz in the late 1940s or early 1950s, where he would devote the rest of his life with artistic pursuits. Kind of doesn't fit in with your views now does it?
He planned to retire after the war had reached a victorious conclusion. I don't see your point.
 
Last edited:

Fulmen

The Winter War was only 7% of Finland's WW2
73 Badges
Dec 23, 2006
5.953
5.990
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • War of the Roses
  • War of the Vikings
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Then who was he? A visionary and a patriot? He actually did conquer most of Europe BTW and did quite a lot bad-things-which-we-are-not-supposed-to-discuss.

Yes, out of necessity. He was someone who wanted nothing more than to restore the greatness of Germany and break the shackles of the Treaty of Versailles. Oh yeah and that Lebensraum im Osten and crushing Judeo-Bolshevism was a bonus for him too. ;) But seriously, he didn't have an interest in Germanizing the whole continent.
 

Fulmen

The Winter War was only 7% of Finland's WW2
73 Badges
Dec 23, 2006
5.953
5.990
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • War of the Roses
  • War of the Vikings
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Hitler wanted to conquer the world for the "Aryan race" and commit genocide against the "subhumans". This has been proven time and time again by various historians of merit such as Weinberg, Hillgruber, Fest etc. Hitler's ultimate goal was to wage a total war for world hegemony against the USA after the war in Europe had been finished.

:rofl: You're a lost cause.
 

Fulmen

The Winter War was only 7% of Finland's WW2
73 Badges
Dec 23, 2006
5.953
5.990
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • War of the Roses
  • War of the Vikings
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
+1

We won't get anywhere.

Now, let's discuss the fact that the AI used a nuke... :D I wonder what its effects are in DH?

I was done with it anyway. No point in debating with someone brainwashed.

Are you guys sure it's the AI? It says the USA nuked Germany, and there's a USA'ish symbol in the upper left corner, implying that might be the player or one of them (in case this was MP).

EDIT: Nevermind, Torres confirmed it's the AI on the 1st page. :)
 

Tankist/45

Major
10 Badges
Jul 1, 2009
678
86
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Iron Cross
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
Yes, out of necessity. He was someone who wanted nothing more than to restore the greatness of Germany and break the shackles of the Treaty of Versailles. Oh yeah and that Lebensraum im Osten and crushing Judeo-Bolshevism was a bonus for him too. ;) But seriously, he didn't have an interest in Germanizing the whole continent.

Have you an hitler picture hanged on your wall?
 

Fernando Torres

Darkest Hour Game Designer
48 Badges
Dec 2, 2006
10.182
39
rayan-nezzar.fr
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Elven Legacy Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Legio
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
I was done with it anyway. No point in debating with someone brainwashed.

Are you guys sure it's the AI? It says the USA nuked Germany, and there's a USA'ish symbol in the upper left corner, implying that might be the player or one of them (in case this was MP).

EDIT: Nevermind, Torres confirmed it's the AI on the 1st page. :)
This is Brazilian roundel. :)
 

Porkman

Field Marshal
20 Badges
Nov 4, 2006
3.219
1.410
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
This is why the internet gods invented smileys, because we can't hear the tone of voice. Though it should be mentioned to Fulmen, that very often, publishers don't like the maps that the author has made because they are too detailed or have too many colors or any number of things, so they switch them out for a similar map. This can also happen a lot with a translated book because it's easier to take a modern local language map of Europe with your best graphic artist's approximation of the author's original overlay than it is to take the original author's map and put in all new French, German, English, or Finnish names.
 

SAS

20+ Years on the Forum
Moderator
203 Badges
Jan 13, 2002
8.032
691
  • Diplomacy
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Paradox Order
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition

unmerged(174217)

Private
1 Badges
Oct 19, 2009
11
0
  • Arsenal of Democracy
Hitler wasn't a nice guy, but he didn't want to "conquer the world." I am relatively certain that that misconception is the result of Allied propaganda. Hitler had his sights on European Russia, not the west, and I feel very fortunate that he didn't take it considering my Ukrainian background.

Oh, and that map looks great, but I concur that the flag is revolting.
 

Deus Eversor

Field Marshal
28 Badges
Nov 18, 2006
3.419
6
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
I know rybinsk lake was created in late 30s but there should be something representing it's creation, especialy because it was a hydroplant there so some extra electricity...
 

unmerged(59604)

Second Lieutenant
Aug 5, 2006
189
2
Hitler wasn't a nice guy, but he didn't want to "conquer the world." I am relatively certain that that misconception is the result of Allied propaganda.
On December 15, 1941 Germany and Japan "divided" the world along the 70th meridian east: Germany was to dominate Europe, the Middle East and Africa, while East Asia, India and the Pacific were reserved for Japan. The future of the western hemisphere was not yet decided, although Japan had claims on Alaska and the Washington state. See book
 
Last edited:

unmerged(174217)

Private
1 Badges
Oct 19, 2009
11
0
  • Arsenal of Democracy
On December 15, 1941 Germany and Japan "divided" the world along the 70th meridian east: Germany was to dominate Europe, the Middle East and Africa, while East Asia, India and the Pacific were reserved for Japan. The future of the western hemisphere was not yet decided, although Japan had claims on Alaska and the Washington state. See book

Hitler offered peace to Britain twice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/historyofthebbc/resources/bbcatwar/overseas.shtml

Shortly before the outbreak of war, Hitler offered a peace deal to Britain.
Hitler made another offer, after the fall of Paris,

By 1941 it was obvious that peace wasn't on the table and the war was only going to end one way.