Darkest Hour and HoI III

[Generalfeldmarschall]

hey guys!

i was wondering, i am a big fan of the HoI series as well as the EU series... I have been a member of the PI community going on 12 years and I actually had the privilege of beta testing the original EU and HoI and have since had a great time with them though just recently gotten back into HOI III as i was quite busy with work and such...

anyway, my question is fairly simple - many things in DH must contribute to the era in which HoI III takes place, but I was wondering if the games are comparable in any ways... As far as the technology system, the battle system, etc...? I was on the twcenter forums and read a posting about a possibly expansion - i cannot recall if it was for Darkest Hour or for HoI III that would combine the two games, or at least combine the time frame. has anyone else heard this?

Really I was just wondering - was it easy for you HoI fans to transition into the gameplay of Darkest Hour? I equate it to EU and Victoria, it is fairly similar yet still needs some getting used to.... Thanks for any replies!

Sincerely,
GFM

 

[Lord Finnish]

Two completely different games. DH is essentially a fan-made remake of the old Hearts of Iron 2 while HoI3 is its own game with its own engine.

Yes it was easy to move from HoI2 to DH because they are pretty much the same thing.

As far as differences are concerned I prefer this old system. HoI3 has ridiculously many provinces, unnecessary graphics, is much more ahistorical and takes more time in pause mode than actually playing the game.

The rumor of combining games was about DH and Arsenal of Democracy, another HoI2 remake. The combination will never happen and AoD has essentially fallen into the graveyard of "Classic Games" while DH is rolling fast forward with its awesome developer team working their butts off to bring us the next patch.

 

[Pioniere]

You should go for DH and AOD when the prize is so cheap. DH will have many new patches and new items to come but AOD will just have one more patch, but both are worth getting if you like the hoi series.


DH/AOD annexed under 6$hmy:
http://www.gamersgate.com/games?prio=relevance&q=hoiweekend

 

[Generalfeldmarschall]

Hey guys! Thanks so much for the information! I actually found DH on Amazon for only 5 bucks! well needless to say i just bought it and am downloading now so i take it you fellas prefer the HoI II map and engine over the HoI III one? I have heard many people say that... I honestly had not played HoI II for SO long I cannot even remember all of the differences...

Thanks again for your time and I am looking forward to playing this awesome game I have always wanted a good WWI RTS Grand Strategy game and this looks like it!

Sincerely,
GFM

 

[am300307]

yes it is in closed beta testing right now.... it is coming along nicely supposedly and i have heard some scuttlebutt about a possible expansion that could combine Darkest Hour and HoI III ... i am not sure of its name but it was discussed on the twcenter on which i am a member... the patch 3.06 should just be fixing little issues though - not completely adding new start/end dates... possibly changing some hard coding though in the .exe file that we modders cannot get to.

cheers lads!
GFM

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?606131-FTM-3.06-patch

 

[Lord Finnish]

Combining DH with HoI3 is way beyond realistic possibilities and I seriously doubt DH's team want any kind of combinations to their game.

 

[Fernando Torres]

Why on earth would we want to do that?

 

[whatguts]

are you kidding? DH is 1000x better than HOI3

 

[Kannon]

Don't forget to try the mods. Kaiserreich is something HoI3 will never be able to offer.

 

[UltimaGecko]

I prefer DH (...and AOD and ...well.. regular HOI2) more than HOI3 for a large number of reasons, but the most significant are:

More interesting tech tree. HOI3 is just too bland. The lack of national tech teams misses out on a lot of character and the experience/degradation system is a chore to work with

More manageable map. While it's true DH could benefit from a few more provinces in some places, it's even crowded in some places (mostly Benelux). It only causes more micromanagement with limited gameplay impact (...woo, frontage?). As a side benefit - especially for the DH map - HOI2 games look more like traditional WW2 maps (or RISK maps), which just feels more right to me.

More engaging history. More a flaw in the HOI3 design philosophy, but DH and HOI2 games in general tend to do a better job sticking within the bounds of WW2-era history. HOI3 simplifies somethings too much in this regard while limiting player control. HOI3 has the more robust engine, so the events could be better, but for some reason PI decided to focus on flashier graphics and more ahistorical gameplay.

Less tedious command structure. When the player almost needs to use the AI to manage combat you know you've made your unit hierarchy a bit too ridiculous. HOI2 has just about the right level of abstraction, while HOI3 forces you to use a draconian interface to get your units set up.


Actually, it's probably easier to list the things I like about HOI3 more than HOI2:
The "build a division from brigades" feature.

(and DH's modability would technically let you do that if someone took the time to mod it and balance it)


Alright maybe some other minor things, but DH/AOD/HOI2 are the more fun, more playable, more interesting games overall.

 

[Bodhisattvas]

Well actually I think that the research system of HOI3 is quiet interesting. It don't like it in HoI2 games that my teams aren#t getting better. I think a combination of the teach-teams (I love tech teams) and the HoI3 system could be cool.
And the command hierarchy. I agree that the HoI3 command structure... is nearly impossible to manage. It was one of the most anticipated features for me, but it does not work. Then again, the structure of HoI2 could be just a little bit more complex. I thinking of somewhat like in the AGEOD games. There you can have armys/corps/divisions that belong together but its far less micromanagement then in HoI3.

But I haven't played HoI3 for a long time, don't know how I would like it with the latest expansions.

 

[Kung Zog]

I play both. I like both. It depends on how I'm feeling that day.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Well actually I think that the research system of HOI3 is quiet interesting. It don't like it in HoI2 games that my teams aren#t getting better. I think a combination of the teach-teams (I love tech teams) and the HoI3 system could be cool.

Hearts of Iron 1 had the best one IMO. There were literally hundreds of techs and you used IC to develop them. You could customize your units by developing them through different techs. Each new model of tank for example needed researching one new type of gun, engine and armor. The bigger the gun the better the tank but the more expensive it is and so on.

 

[mikey1871]

Hearts of Iron 1 had the best one IMO. There were literally hundreds of techs and you used IC to develop them. You could customize your units by developing them through different techs. Each new model of tank for example needed researching one new type of gun, engine and armor. The bigger the gun the better the tank but the more expensive it is and so on.

omg, that's right.. it's been so many years since i've played HOI1 that i forgot that was how the original tech worked.

Maybe someone could reintroduce that kind of tech back into a mod for DH... if we all like it maybe the DH team can change the tech stuff in a future patch

 

[elbasto]

Hearts of Iron 1 had the best one IMO. There were literally hundreds of techs and you used IC to develop them. You could customize your units by developing them through different techs. Each new model of tank for example needed researching one new type of gun, engine and armor. The bigger the gun the better the tank but the more expensive it is and so on.

It was awesome!

 

[TrueCoppa]

Two completely different games. DH is essentially a fan-made remake of the old Hearts of Iron 2 while HoI3 is its own game with its own engine.

Yes it was easy to move from HoI2 to DH because they are pretty much the same thing.

As far as differences are concerned I prefer this old system. HoI3 has ridiculously many provinces, unnecessary graphics, is much more ahistorical and takes more time in pause mode than actually playing the game.

The rumor of combining games was about DH and Arsenal of Democracy, another HoI2 remake. The combination will never happen and AoD has essentially fallen into the graveyard of "Classic Games" while DH is rolling fast forward with its awesome developer team working their butts off to bring us the next patch.

But that's what I love about the game. Conquering a country is far too fast in the HoI2 games, in HoI3 it is more realistic as it will actually take a few months to conquer a moderately sized nation rather than taking all 5 of their provinces in a few weeks. Also the graphics add a really nice touch to the game. I don't usually talk about graphics, but with HoI3 it makes the interface a lot more welcoming and the map graphics themselves are brilliant, with country labels and just that smoothness that HoI2 games lack. To be honest, if you're playing a game where all you are looking at is a map, the map should look good. In regards to the second part in bold, I like that too. Maybe it's just me but I love spending a long time setting up my armies with realistic names and a realistic OOB, it makes playing the game just that bit more interesting.

Just my two cents, though. Both games have their pros.
DH has a really nice diplomacy system and a really long campaign, HoI3 has a better combat system and a more smooth/welcoming interface.

 

[Chromos]

Hearts of Iron 1 had the best one IMO. There were literally hundreds of techs and you used IC to develop them. You could customize your units by developing them through different techs. Each new model of tank for example needed researching one new type of gun, engine and armor. The bigger the gun the better the tank but the more expensive it is and so on.

You still have that with HOI3 to some extend if you just research only the guns of medium, then all mediums will have that good gun from that modell on etc..
If you don't research more guns your medium will stay at that lvl. Light tanks/heavies have different techs, so are researched seperate..

In my upcoming mod I'll bring back some of the HOI1 feeling with some extra modding of the tech system.
So you would need to reserach the '88 only once and be able to decide if you want to put them on your heavies and later adapt it on your medium and so on..
(But thats for the "bad" HOI3..)

But with the current HOI2 engine similar is already possible too. (The "Add-on-Mod for Stony Road"/"RTV-Mod" had a nice solution already.)
Even more if you have access to the code wich will allow even better/smarter solution then using events/decsions..
And if we look at the progress being made, I bet we will get more nice features in the future..

Personally I would like to have a mixture of these three. So you would have teams that would research and cost some part of your nations ressources.
Research new stuff and then finance prototyping. Rushing new techs into production should have an impact.(Early Tigers/Panthers etc..)
Extra ress spend should improve the stats of the new equipment.
New equipment should need time to equip you units. Infield exchange of hvy equipment should not be as easy as now..
(You would need training to get used to a new Panther if you are used to a PzIV.. Or think of Sherman and Pershing or Jet planes..)
Rifles are of course a diffrent thing.
So you would need to decide if you stay with the old stuff for output numbers(retooling time..), and if you can spend the time to equip your units with new stuff and so on..
Also you could say, well that 88 is still lethal enough just make it a bit longer, but the next 105 is already designed, just lets test it some further so its easier to produce when we really need it..
Just some thoughts..

Cheers,
Chromos

 

[Panzergruppe]

I actually enjoy the party system in HoI3 where all major political parties are represented in most (all?) nations. Gives it more character, and adds a political touch to the game. I also like the ability to automatically research techs. If I could just click on one thing I'd like, lets say the ICBM, and the game automatically delegates that task to the most suited tech team who then researches all steps needed to gain that tech, I'd like DH even more.

 

[Limith]

Imo, Victoria 2 would be a better starting point than HoI3 if DH were ever ported over to the new engine.

 

[Generalfeldmarschall]

hey guys! i just finished installing DH (I bought it yesterday but hadn't had any time to play yet) and I'm looking forward to it - especially the 1914 scenario I was wondering, does anyone remember that game Guns of August? It was for DOS I believe or win32 i can't remember exactly but it was loads of fun... I agree with you guys who mentioned the gfx differences b/w HoI 1 and HoI 3 - i think less is more when it comes down to some things... I for one could care less what little sprites are moving around on the map, i use counters anyway lol... Anyway though, I didn't mean to start a debate I apologize I was really just wondering what were some of the main differences so I could get through the early games a little bit easier lol.

as far as the HoI III patch - i believe the post was deleted on the twcenter forums and since no one here has heard about it - obviously the devs would know if HoI III was going to extend further back into the 20th century but i can't seem to find the subject either with google search or bing search tools... either way, i am happy to have purchased DH as it was a real steal for less than 6 bucks... i would have paid 26 but nonetheless, i'm off to play talk to you lads later i'm off to attempt to prevent the rise of the NS party in Germany and crush the 3rd Republic in France all at the same time! Yeaah!

sincerely,
GFM