dark middle ages

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I was a bit suuprised about the intro telling about the dark middle ages. If Paradox is still considerpng them dark, they are definitely still living in the dark middle ages. You guys should read "a distant mirror from Barbara Tuchman.

It is not because the french were eating with their hands and cleaning them to the nap (before Catherina de Medici).

 

[TheArchduke]

Originally posted by De Coninck
I was a bit suuprised about the intro telling about the dark middle ages. If Paradox is still considerpng them dark, they are definitely still living in the dark middle ages. You guys should read "a distant mirror from Barbara Tuchman.

It is not because the french were eating with their hands and cleaning them to the nap (before Catherina de Medici).

"Distant mirror" is certainly a great book. But I don´t think you should take the intro video too seriously.

 

[unmerged(15584)]

Or you could look at "A World Lit Only By Fire" by William Manchester.. lots of good books out there. There are two sides to the coin anyway.

 

[unmerged(4640)]

Originally posted by De Coninck
I was a bit suuprised about the intro telling about the dark middle ages. If Paradox is still considerpng them dark, they are definitely still living in the dark middle ages. You guys should read "a distant mirror from Barbara Tuchman.

It is not because the french were eating with their hands and cleaning them to the nap (before Catherina de Medici).

Of course, you should remember that the timeframe that this game covers is also the timeframe that gave the Middle Ages the name of the 'Dark Ages'.

These Renaissance people thought themselves far better, and thus the Middle Ages must have been dark and bad and all that fun stuff.

 

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They were called the "dark ages" as they came before Daylight Savings Time, which added an hour of sunlight to the day to make the world lighter.

 

[Jayavarman]

Originally posted by De Coninck
I was a bit suuprised about the intro telling about the dark middle ages. If Paradox is still considerpng them dark, they are definitely still living in the dark middle ages. You guys should read "a distant mirror from Barbara Tuchman.

It is not because the french were eating with their hands and cleaning them to the nap (before Catherina de Medici).

"Dark Ages" is more dramatic.

 

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I agree, "Unhygienic Ages" just doesn't have that ring to it.

Besides, IIRC the Dark Ages ended in 1066 - in fact doesn't the Renaissance start prior to the game period?

 

[daedalus]

Originally posted by The Junker
I agree, "Unhygienic Ages" just doesn't have that ring to it.

Besides, IIRC the Dark Ages ended in 1066 - in fact doesn't the Renaissance start prior to the game period?

I thought it starts at the 1400's , cinquecento or something like that. Some historians put the end of the middle ages at the fall of constantinopla.

 

[unmerged(5958)]

Originally posted by daedalus
I thought it starts at the 1400's , cinquecento or something like that. Some historians put the end of the middle ages at the fall of constantinopla.

I also usually heard the fall of Constantinopel and the reconquista as the end of the Middle Ages as it put Western Europe again in close contact with the Greek and Roman scolars via fled Scientists and captured manuscripts, respectively.

 

[kullenius]

You are right De Coninck. The middle ages or dark ages was set by the renaissance people who thought that they had once again been enlighted as the ancients.

There are many books who talks about that the dark ages wasn't that dark, and that many inventions and manuscrips were done, but to be fare, it can't even be compared to the ancient period in anything but religious fanatism and lawlessness. So yes, it do deserve its name. So there

 

[boehm]

well from an economic point of view the avarage income per capita kept on increasing right up through the "dark age".....

 

[Dawkins]

I thought the "Dark ages" and the "middle ages" were 2 distinct and separate time periods comprising, in England, of (at a rough guess):

Dark Ages from the fall of the western roman empire though to around 1066

Middle ages from 1066 through to around the battle of Bosworth Field.

I'm amazed none of the history buffs on this board have pointed this out already, which leads me to strongly suspect that I am wrong

 

[kullenius]

And the Dark Ages in Greek history is after the Sea People invades around 1100 BC to Geometric time in 850 BC.

But, hmm, this might not have that much to do with EU, so EU Dark Ages would most certainly be ment as what comes between the ancient times and the renaisance in European history.

 

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there is actually a bit of an argument (or at least there was among historians in the 20th c) about when the renaissance starts & ends. the labels are mostly for convenience, though, & don't have much historical weight outside of being shorthand for period x. for example, in the renaissance: its nature and origins by george clarke sellery is mostly an extended argument for there being no such thing as a "renaissance" (which is defined by him (nonetheless) as the period between the 12th & 15th centuries in europe.) one thing i've never heard an argument about is when the early modern period begins -- the 16th c. anyways, it's all mostly silliness as w/ most definitional arguments. (imho, por supuesto.)

 

[Carolus Rex]

Over to u DK!

 

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Hmm...I always thought the dark middle ages began around thirty-something..
..sorry..

 

[unmerged(5958)]

Originally posted by Dawkins
I thought the "Dark ages" and the "middle ages" were 2 distinct and separate time periods comprising, in England, of (at a rough guess):

Dark Ages from the fall of the western roman empire though to around 1066

Middle ages from 1066 through to around the battle of Bosworth Field.

I'm amazed none of the history buffs on this board have pointed this out already, which leads me to strongly suspect that I am wrong

I never heard this distinction between dark and middle ages. I think the MIDDLE AGES were in the middle between the Classic period and Renaissance.

 

[stnylan]

The Dark Ages are a subdivision of the Middle Ages

Very loosely

Antiquity upto c.500AD (traditional 'date' is 476/80 End of Western Roman Empire)

Middle Ages/Mediaeval History c.500-c.1500

Modern Ages post c.1500

Within the Middle Ages you have

The Dark Ages (upto mid 11th century)
High Middle Ages (from mid 11th to c.1300)
Late Middle Ages (c.1300 - c.1500)

Except the Renaissance overlaps this, and starts in different places at different times.

So in Italy it starts late 14th/early 15th. In England it only starts in early sixteenth. The same problem of geographical spread applies to all these date barriers.

 

[Winkelried]

Originally posted by boehm
well from an economic point of view the avarage income per capita kept on increasing right up through the "dark age".....

Yes, but it also starts quite low. 6th or 7th century per capita income was significantly lower than during roman times.

As for the term "dark ages". I heard following explanation: there's only very little to none written sources from that time, thus it remains "in the dark". Or something like that.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Originally posted by Winkelried
Yes, but it also starts quite low. 6th or 7th century per capita income was significantly lower than during roman times.

As for the term "dark ages". I heard following explanation: there's only very little to none written sources from that time, thus it remains "in the dark". Or something like that.

Do you guys have any statistics on this?