DAIM Metathread - Information and Discussion

[Spocky]

about this japan thing:
- after complain that china was to weak for japan we daimed them ,to
Now Japan sometimes lose, so what ?
- in my test the change for see japan loosing was about 20%-25%.
- I will see if I can tweak Japan in that way that they don't loose so stupid when they loose but no weak chinese anymore
- It also for the human Japanese player who wants a china that can fight back



about this units in port stack thing.
Yesterday I was thinking about the invasion AI vs transport AI porblem from HOI 1. Maybe we had this bug back in HOI2

Spocky

 

[Graymane]

To be honest, I don't think you should try to tweak things. I don't think much is actually broken. I think you just made some of the AIs for different countries very good and they are just beating each other up. I do believe there MIGHT be a few bug type problems already mentioned (port stacking, prep for war, etc). I think the real solution for the JAP/CHI problem is just to uninstall China when playing anyone except Japan (that China AI would make playing Japan more fun). After my 3rd trial today, if it goes the same way, I will uninstall Bigpack and just install a DAIM axix and see how that one goes.

EDIT: Should DAIM work on any diff level or is there one that it is best for?

 

[Lothos]

about this japan thing:
- after complain that china was to weak for japan we daimed them ,to
Now Japan sometimes lose, so what ?
- in my test the change for see japan loosing was about 20%-25%.
- I will see if I can tweak Japan in that way that they don't loose so stupid when they loose but no weak chinese anymore
- It also for the human Japanese player who wants a china that can fight back



about this units in port stack thing.
Yesterday I was thinking about the invasion AI vs transport AI porblem from HOI 1. Maybe we had this bug back in HOI2

Spocky

Remove Passitivity = DAIM???

 

[e-stab]

EDIT: Should DAIM work on any diff level or is there one that it is best for?

I usually play on Hard/Aggressive and use Normal/Aggressive for Handsoffs.

@Lothos: Sorry, I don't get the point of your last posting.

 

[Graymane]

What does passivity actually do? Is there a way to make a country that will act strong defensively (and in depth) but not make a lot of offensive attacks? I was noticing when looking at the Russians with nofog that they would stack 15 divisions in the border provinces with 1 behind. Is there way to make them do, say, 50/50 like that instead?

 

[Graymane]

I usually play on Hard/Aggressive and use Normal/Aggressive for Handsoffs.

@Lothos: Sorry, I don't get the point of your last posting.

My test games where Normal/Normal for the first 2. My current one will be VH/Aggressive. I usually play VH/Agressive except when testing.

 

[Lothos]

My point is Spocky said he DAIMed China and thats why China beats Japan. I find it funny that you guys get the same results I told you that you would get cause I did the same things you are doing over 3 months ago but you have to give it a CoOl name and call it DAIM hehe. I guess saying exactly what you changed in the AI file does not sound cool enough.

Maybe it is just I have a weird sense of humor, oh well.

 

[Graymane]

So passivity is the only variable that actually does anything??? The files I looked at that were changed were the following (I keep my own backup of Vanilla when I try different mods):

- Technology focus and what is researched and not researched
- Build priorities (a lot more emphasis on INF/Armor and useful brigades)
- All the "war" parameters for lack of a better name. The stuff with front = and stuff like that. Stuff like when to do combats in certain areas like winter/forest/etc are all changed.

Basically, it looks like they changed a whole lot of crap in the main files. Stuff that wasn't change too much seemed to be the invasion AI (stuff like attacking beaches or leader ratios and stuff like that).

Is passivity really the only driving factor in when a country will attack offensively?

EDIT. I didn't look at every file, just some of the jap/german/russian ones.

EDIT 2. I've written a variety of editors for various paradox games, it would be quite easy to write one to do a changelog if that would help anyone

 

[e-stab]

My point is Spocky said he DAIMed China and thats why China beats Japan. I find it funny that you guys get the same results I told you that you would get cause I did the same things you are doing over 3 months ago but you have to give it a CoOl name and call it DAIM hehe. I guess saying exactly what you changed in the AI file does not sound cool enough.

Maybe it is just I have a weird sense of humor, oh well.

As already said on a different occasion, we changed more than just a few values. Maybe China is not the best example for it (because of the limited options they have), but we did more than just remove the passivity - as a look in the file will tell.

Frankly, Lothos, we never belittled your work, and we expect the same from you. We're doing a modification out of a different personal philosophy, nothing more, nothing less. If you or anyone else doesn't like what we're doing or how, that's fine, but there's no need to drag DAIM down.

 

[Lothos]

As already said on a different occasion, we changed more than just a few values. Maybe China is not the best example for it (because of the limited options they have), but we did more than just remove the passivity - as a look in the file will tell.

Frankly, Lothos, we never belittled your work, and we expect the same from you. We're doing a modification out of a different personal philosophy, nothing more, nothing less. If you or anyone else doesn't like what we're doing or how, that's fine, but there's no need to drag DAIM down.

Not saying your work is crap but it would be to everyones benefit if you actually say what you changed. I read through the thread and you guys refer to DAIMing things but with no specifics. It comes accross as if you are gods gift to the AI world or something. All the other AI modders list the changes out and lists the results out. We all do this to share the information and it actually tells people what has been changed and how it effects the AI. One of the first comments about Japan is WE DAIMED it and thats why Japan beats China. When in the original HoI AI files if you took the passitivity off from Japan you would get THE SAME RESULTS as if you DAIMED it. That is my point! You use the word DAIM instead of just listing out the changes and frankly it comes accross as an insult to me. I told you before the main thing that stuck out in your AI files I liked was the ignore tech lists which I had already started using but I cant be anymore specific than that cause of the NDA. Anyways 1.2 will be out hopefully soon so I can finally be allowed to talk openly about all the changes.

 

[Laffertytig]

dunno if this is a bug or not but ive researched improved motorised divs which makes moto 40 obsolete. but i have divs that wont upgrade from moto 40 to moto 42 divs. the upgrade panel reads no upgrades required!

anyone else seen this?

 

[Spocky]

Not saying your work is crap but it would be to everyones benefit if you actually say what you changed. I read through the thread and you guys refer to DAIMing things but with no specifics.

Lothos , what do you want ??
Do you really want to log the change of every single value ?
Who wants to read this ?

The guy who want to play it is not interrested in passivity.
And the AI modder is able to read and compare files .

oh , and one other thing ,
at Super AI bundle you wrote changelogs like this

AI Changes
• Japan AI reworked for China a bit.

source

so please don't tell my , our explanation of the changes are too short

Spocky

 

[Lothos]

Super AI Bundle was very long ago when I do my changelog today I do things like

USA Construction prios changed
USA had Mountain Infantry added to ignore tech list

etc.... You are refering to work that I did about 1 1/2 years ago when the only AI modders where Tamerlan and I and PB-DK was just starting to dab into the AI. Today there are a bunch more AI modders and it benefits everyone if you are a bit more specific. You dont have to say "changed tech weight of armor from 4 to 6" That is to much detail but you can say "GER had his tech weights adjusted" etc.... in each of your patches if you changed that particular area. What you guys do know is say "WE DID 10000000000's of changes in the AI" and say it got DAIMed!!!! and thats why it out performs. So I go look at the AI and I am like umm ok he added ignore techs hmm ok!!! He moved light armor to medium armor because of the internal AI light to medium armor bug hmm ok!!! front AI seems about the same!!!! He removed the passitivity!!! hmmm what is the real major difference????

This is what I am talking about!

If you are more specific then I can dig deaper into what you have done and look at what you have specificially changed. If it is really a good change then I have no problem adding it into the next official Paradox patch and giving credit for it. Hopefully you understand my point here.

P.S. By the time we reached Super AI Bundle 1.2 (which was the one you are refering to) there where no real AI changes. That change (if memory is correct) was a minor change to passitivity and when the backoff event should fire.

 

[Kami888]

I think I have to agree with Lothos that a changelog with an explanation would be good, at least because some changes sound a little strange (I listed examples in other thread before I came across this one). Not that I'm asking you to explain why you added certain tech to ignore/priority list, but for example why you increased/decreased recklessness in certain places would really help me (and possibly some other people) understand what made your AI so strong/determined/cool/extraordinary
Maybe do a separate thread for it.

 

[Luxor]

I'd also like to know, both as a player and as a modder, what you change. Not the details of course, but the way Lothos suggested. This is not to "check" or "compare" your work, but if you guys come up with a good idea, the whole community should join it. And the way this can happen is not using your mod, but seeing your work possibly in official paradox patches. In this way everyone gets benefit from it.

 

[Graymane]

Well, I have a changelog maker that is actually working pretty well I should finish it up by the next few days. Unfortunately, it does give all the nasty details and no overview. I am still toying around with how I want the output to be and a few parsing issues, but currently it does something like this (just made up from my testing):

# CHANGED claim_acceptance = -50 to -49
# REMOVED strat_redeploy_threshold = 21
# ADDED switch = no
# CHANGED admiral.return_org = 90 to 60
# ADDED admiral.target.1234
# REMOVED admiral.core.2185

It will work on any Paradox file (not csv yet) from any of their games with files like these. I just need a directory processor now and I can do an entire file structure with it to also show added/removed/changed files.

This works better than a regular file compare utility because it understands Paradoxese and the order of elements within a grouping structure and whitespace does not matter for this changelog.

 

[Spocky]

What does passivity actually do? Is there a way to make a country that will act strong defensively (and in depth) but not make a lot of offensive attacks? I was noticing when looking at the Russians with nofog that they would stack 15 divisions in the border provinces with 1 behind. Is there way to make them do, say, 50/50 like that instead?

If you set a passivity to 50 the AI of this country will only do every second attack , the AI had planned

Spocky

 

[Spocky]

two points

1.) when I run a diff over vanilla/jap_china.ai and daim/jpa_china.ai it shows me 207 changed lines. As you say , every of this 207 lines needs an entry in the changelog.
We changed and added 43 files

43 * 207 = 8901

I guess no one want to read a changelog with 8901 lines

2.)the second point:

If somebody asks why we do this or ours AIs do that , we answer .
But Lothos has never asked anything.
But when I read things like this

Please try not to take this as a shoot down of your work but ...

or this

Remove Passitivity = DAIM???

which can be interpreted very insulting I'm in no mood to make a changelog


Spocky

 

[unmerged(38177)]

I have a question?

I have read all of thses threads..... so don't FLAME me.

can you do something for unpredictability.... one AI will fire one game, and another will another time. maybe this might change things a bit.

 

[Spocky]

I have read all of thses threads..... so don't FLAME me.

can you do something for unpredictability.... one AI will fire one game, and another will another time. maybe this might change things a bit.

Sorry , but I'm not shure if I had understand your question.
Do you want a randomizer that sometimes fires Vanilla and sometimes fires DAIM ?
Or do you want more randomizing beween the DAIM AIs?

Spocky