Czechslovakia needs a rework

[sekelsenmat]

Hello, I'm trying the Czechmate achievement and wanted some realistic althistory path, but I noted some wierd stuff in Czechslovakia:
1> The fascist party is an obscure NOF when there were many hard-right parties with much more popularity, the sudet Nazi party would be one option as it had the most votes in the whole country and pro-german

2> Starts democratic with CSSD in power, but RSZML was in power: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935_Czechoslovak_parliamentary_election

3> No nonaligned path? I see a lot of support for non-fascist right wing authoritarianism in the 35 election results. It could be the parties HSĽS (Slovak Catholic) + NSj (Czech conservative). Maybe this would be some entende anti-german thing? Anything is better then the current "Non aligned" party.

4> The fascist path has a lot of options, but the conditions to meet (60% support to a lid sudetenland) are almost impossible.

I also wonder if people have ideas of realistic alt history for Czechslovakia. Would Hitler accept a pro German regime without giving sudetenland? How else could fascism or non aligned work there?

 

[kimidf]

Hello, I'm trying the Czechmate achievement and wanted some realistic althistory path, but I noted some wierd stuff in Czechslovakia:
1> The fascist party is an obscure NOF when there were many hard-right parties with much more popularity, the sudet Nazi party would be one option as it had the most votes in the whole country and pro-german

2> Starts democratic with CSSD in power, but RSZML was in power: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935_Czechoslovak_parliamentary_election

3> No nonaligned path? I see a lot of support for non-fascist right wing authoritarianism in the 35 election results. It could be the parties HSĽS (Slovak Catholic) + NSj (Czech conservative). Maybe this would be some entende anti-german thing? Anything is better then the current "Non aligned" party.

4> The fascist path has a lot of options, but the conditions to meet (60% support to a lid sudetenland) are almost impossible.

I also wonder if people have ideas of realistic alt history for Czechslovakia. Would Hitler accept a pro German regime without giving sudetenland? How else could fascism or non aligned work there?

I agree most of the trees of the first two dlcs should be reformulated in some way although there are worse than the txecolosvaco tree

 

[squid_hills]

I agree the tree needs a few tweaks. It's mostly decent, but the requirements for unlocking each branch of the fascist tree are pretty excessive. The fascist branch gives you some good options for expansion, but by the time you have enough fascist support in the government to start the focuses, Germany has already allied with or eaten all of your potential targets.

FUN!

 

[DicRoNero]

Has anyone ever seen AI Czechs going red? Historically among the democracies it was arguably the most leftist regime at the West, yet in my games it never ever emerges as one before being annexed/smashed even when it makes it to early 1940s.

 

[sekelsenmat]

Has anyone ever seen AI Czechs going red? Historically among the democracies it was arguably the most leftist regime at the West, yet in my games it never ever emerges as one before being annexed/smashed even when it makes it to early 1940s.

Really the most leftist? By which criteria? Did you read the 1935 election results?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935_Czechoslovak_parliamentary_election

Not leftist at all I'd say, it had one of the largest far-right parties in Europe and the left was not in power during the game period.

The only thing leftist is the focus tree, going communist seems the only reasonable alt-history path available.

 

[colonel Oink]

More advisors are needed and they must be relevant. Guys like Gusak or Tuki are clearly out of place.

 

[kettyo]

Progressive culture and arts!

By which standards is this a leftist thing?

You didn't find much of it in the USSR, Communist China, FDR Yugoslavia, etc as far as i know.

I'd say it is rather an elitist capitalist phenomenon as it is mostly fancied by wealthy people.

 

[kettyo]

As much as it needs a rework, it needs some Oppose Hitler games in ahistorical default so not all games play out very similarly with Germany coming for the Sudeten.

 

[sekelsenmat]

The ingame fascist path gives away the so called Sudeten, how many SdP would there be afterwards? Not much.

So the realist thing would be for fascism support to start at 30% and drop by 30% after sudeten are anexed.

Also "many hard-right parties with much more popularity". How many of these actually professed fascism besides SdP (and the tiny NOF)? Stříbrný wing of NSj and Tuka wing of HSĽS are not the pinnacles of popularity.

Actually it's ČSNS (Dr. Beneš was a vicechairman before presidency), but yes, RSZML was the party of the PM.

With the italophile leanings of HSĽS and some of the NSj?

So the fact we got invaded even after Munich and that was with pro-German 2nd Republic (1938-39) is not good enough proof of "no"?

One solution would be for the non-german conservative parties to be the "Non-Aligned", so they are anti-leftist, but also anti-german.

Which was in opposition. Also it was 15,2% votes.

Which is a lot more then the 5% the game gives it.

Labour rights and welfare! Secularism! Progressive culture and arts! Defence pact with the USSR!

None of these except Defense pact with USSR are exclusive of the far left (which is the only left in game since the rest is "democratic"). Bismarck created one of the first retirement schemes, so he is leftist now? Plenty of conservative parties advocated welfare. And labour rights and welfare were quite bad in USSR, China, Vietnam, etc. Read the book "My life in Stalinist Russia", it is a first hand account of life in the Soviet Union. People were starving and sharing 15-people rooms, but the well fed party guys had plenty of food and living space. There were even separate 1st rate hospitals for the elite and 2nd rate for the rest.

 

[kettyo]

So they were conservative or reactionary, the antonyms of progressiveness

Progressive in itself is a very loose and unclear term.

Progressive arts and culture in the other hand is a very identifiable thing, these are mostly products tailored to wealthy or snobbish people.

Also these are very much about deviation from the common standards and communists are fond of uniformization so they are at the opposing sides.

"elitist capitalism" collides with the (left) progressive social mobility and egalitarianism.

This might lead to unnecessarily far and you're right, "left" is also a very loose term. I have obviously talked exclusively about communism as that's what left means in the game.

All kinds of capitalist currents including the ones you have mentioned are called democratic in the game.