Nice research you did there, I was only interested in CZ for their juciy 38t Tanks but now you actually made me interested in playing them.
1. yes, benes insisted in 35 on french clausule, for simple reason, to not force czechs in campaign against poland (or any other state) if soviets decide to go on reclaiming of lost territors from russia empire , polish-soviet war of 1920-22 showed this (and well soviet 39 occupy of baltic states/poland and 40 winter war showed they did have these desires). and benes, as any other, have no idea that france should betray thier ally, so in 35 it looked like good idea.Interestingly it was Benes who insisted on making the 1935 agreement conditional on French intervention. Realistically speaking USSR could only do anything if France forced either Poland or Romania to cooperate, as the two countries shared no border back then.
People do that? I wouldn't.
It might be hard to defend Czechoslovakia from attack once Germany has taken Austria, but I wouldn't call them worthless. Heck, in our MP game, we have a standing rule that Germany can't be challenged over Munich. No one wants WWII to start in 38 and turn into a mess because the Czechs stand and fight long enough for the RAF and French army to make a difference.
It's a pity, that in current HOI4 USSR can't in some way guarantee Czechoslovakia, forcing Germans to stop. Or bring ultimatum to Poland to get military access for the troops to help Czechs.
PDX provide some very "original" vision of USSR in this period in HOI4.
Wow. Elephants in a china shop. Even if UK and France approved of such action for reasons beyond my mental grasp - it would only push Poland to the Axis side.
Back when agreements between Czechoslovakia, France and USSR were negotiated it was believed that France had enough influence over Poland and Romania to do something about it, but later it turned out to be wishful thinking. Best case scenario for the alternative history where Munich doesn't go the way it did - Romania could be convinced to turn a blind eye to unusually large number of male Soviet tourists suddenly wishing to visit Prague. In game terms: if USSR joins France in the German-Czech war they get to send large volunteer corps, more than normal rules would allow.
Umm, wouldn't France and the UK object just as strongly to that they would to anything else? They'd be trading Soviet expansion for German expansion.
There's no way those Soviet troops are leaving Poland once the crisis is over.
While Hitler was moving to the East, it was okay for the allies. They were looking for "final solution of communist problem" brought by Germany. Theh kind of always like to fight with someone's else hands.well, corect me if im wrong, but how exactly france/uk objected any german expansion after 1933 ?
one can say that in 39 they showed nothing, in 40..it was less than half-hearted. and anything in between ?
in 38 they were actualy strongly pro german expansion.
While Hitler was moving to the East, it was okay for the allies. They were looking for "final solution of communist problem" brought by Germany. Theh kind of always like to fight with someone's else hands.
I agree with you, but from sm post, i did have impresion that he is saying/suggesting that west objected to german expansion.
Soviet ultimatum can at least force Poland to stay neutral in Czech-German conflict, which is already much. On the other hand, Polish Interbellum governments showed themselves not completely adequate, so they could risk and continue pressure on the Czechoslovakia in such situation too.No, that's not what I am saying.
I'm saying that an ultimatum from the Soviet Union to Poland, even to defend the Czechs, would be unacceptable to France and Britain. They know damn well that the Soviets wouldn't leave Poland.
Britain and France might be willing to negotiate with Hitler in 1937 and 1938, but they sure as Hell aren't willing to offer concessions to Stalin at that point. By 1939, after Germany breaks Munich, things are different.
No, that's not what I am saying.
I'm saying that an ultimatum from the Soviet Union to Poland, even to defend the Czechs, would be unacceptable to France and Britain. They know damn well that the Soviets wouldn't leave Poland.
Britain and France might be willing to negotiate with Hitler in 1937 and 1938, but they sure as Hell aren't willing to offer concessions to Stalin at that point. By 1939, after Germany breaks Munich, things are different.
polish diplomacy was simply wrong in asuming that hitler is thier friend, they thought if they cooperate with him against czechs, he will leave them alone. never thought he have plans for them too, to end at plate.Soviet ultimatum can at least force Poland to stay neutral in Czech-German conflict, which is already much. On the other hand, Polish Interbellum governments showed themselves not completely adequate, so they could risk and continue pressure on the Czechoslovakia in such situation too.
Most suitable state to get military access to Czech lands is Romania. The only question is the price of the deal.
Planes can fly to Czechoslovakia at night so "noone saw them - so no planes were there, sure". Tanks can be sent as tractors or whatever else similar through railroad. Volunteers are a "group of tourists", which suddenly has decided to visit their Czech friends.
After all, Czechoslovakia doesn't need to take Berlin, all they need is to hold Germans and inflict heavy casualties to them.
In 39 things were different for west ? in what way ?
The French and British entered into negotiations with Poland and the Soviets to see if Poland would let the Soviets move troops through Poland. The Poles refused, but this was a discussion they weren't willing to have in 1938.
Like they themselves didn't leave the Arab countries 20 years prior?I'm saying that an ultimatum from the Soviet Union to Poland, even to defend the Czechs, would be unacceptable to France and Britain. They know damn well that the Soviets wouldn't leave Poland.
Just because you don't know about it, does not mean it didn't happen. Talks with Romania were complete for aviation overfly, for example.problem with soviets is that they never showed thier intentions. they just partialy mobilized thier forces. didnt started military acces talks (to anyone), didnt warned polandd to stay back. didnt negotiated with czechs with sending material aid.
Like they themselves didn't leave the Arab countries 20 years prior?
1). After the Anschluss of Austria - the situation of Czechoslovakia became very difficult, almost hopeless. There were few fortifications on the former Austrian border, so the German army could easily dissect the territory of Czechoslovakia. In addition, the Czech industry was in the zone of operation of German aviation.
2). France's position boiled down to the fact that the help of Czechoslovakia can not in any way hinder the German aggression. The German economy is about 3 times more powerful than the French and the population is about 2 times larger. To start such a war for France is suicide.
3). The position of the UK was that its army and its economy were not ready for a protracted war, so it abandoned any idea of granting guarantees to Czechoslovakia. The chiefs of staff proceeded from the premise that if the war began in 1938, the superiority of forces would be on Germany's side. The participation of the Czech army - only able to temporarily equalize the forces.