Czechoslovakia – maybe not so weak

Status
Not open for further replies.

Phantomiux

Sergeant
73 Badges
Jun 6, 2015
95
91
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Prison Architect
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • March of the Eagles
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
Disclaimer

First, I want to apologize everyone, who clicked on this topic and expected some HoI IV tactics. I can tell you that you don´t need to waste your time by reading and you can choose another topic without any regrets. For the other ones – if you are okay with "small" lecture about history of Czechoslovakia in interwar period, then you should better prepare some popcorn. And sorry for typos, I was doing my best to avoid them, but some things are just inevitable... ☹

Pronunciation

First, I want to keep czech names in original form, so there is little lecture about right pronunciation. Most of czech special letters can be transcribed into english. For example š=sh, so Beneš would sound like „benesh“, and symbol ´ over vowels means that vow should be pronounced about 2x longer than normal, for example name „Vít“ should be pronounced as „Veet“, not „Vit“. Short list of that letters:

š=sh, ch=kh, č=ch, ž=zh, ř=sounds like combo r and ž...

Introduction

So finally, let´s start. I decided to write this topic for one reason. Many players was complaining since announcement of Death or Dishonor DLC about country picks. And most of them about Czechoslovakia. Why Czechoslovakia and not Finland, Bulgaria, Turkey... It´s sad but for most players was Czechoslovakia something like Austria – just food for Germany, one event. Why they should have their own focus tree when they didn´t fight in WWII like Finland? From one point of view, they have right. But there is another one – Czechoslovakia was true milestone for WWII requirements. And one of biggest „what if“ questions, which give you real opportunity to make alternate history. But let start from beginning.

Birth of Czechoslovakia and Czechoslovak Legion

History of Czechoslovakia was written from 28th october 1918 when Czechs and Slovaks declared independence from Austria-Hungary, just 2 weeks before WWI ends. For both nations was that solution best of all solutions. Bohemia was most industrial developed part of Austria, but their status wasn´t recognized. Ofc there was effort of Karl I. to save A-H by reforming it into federation – but that offer wasn´t in october 1918 acceptable for Czechs nor Slovaks. Talking about Slovaks, they were since establishing Austria-Hungary in 1868 under strong hungarian „culture conversion“ and they have no interest to remain as part of Hungary, when was obvious that monarchy was falling apart – and in partnership with their „cultural brothers“ Czechs they saw opportunity how to protect vs hungarian revenge. So they made a deal with Czechs in Pittsbourgh (a strong Slovak diaspora lived there) where in new state was granted autonomy for Slovaks. This is important fact as you will learn later.

First 2 years was for young republic crucial. They have to defend their sovereinty vs Hungary (so called „Small war“), vs Poland and their claim of Zaolzie in 1919, and they won both war with help of Czechoslovak Legion. That were volunteer armed forces which fought together with Entente powers during WWI. Their goal was to win Allies´ support for independent Czechoslovakia. If you asked about numbers – more than 10k. They fought in Russia, France and Italy, and most important - were heavily involved in the Russian Civil War fighting Bolsheviks, at times controlling the entire Trans-Siberian railway and several major cities in Siberia. Legacy of this Legion was really important for Czechoslovakia as their members formed a significant part of new Czechoslovak Army and their command.

Economy and Industry

Czechoslovakia was really quicky reformed from late feudalism into modern state – in 1920 parliament passed many reforms to strenghten democratic character of state: 8 hours worktime, subsidies for unemployed, they passed many social reforms and granted women voting rights in full scale (one year before Sweden!). Most important factor – Czechoslovakia get about 70-80% of all industry of Austria-Hungary and became one of the world´s 10 most industrialized states. From factories biggest one was without doubt Škoda Works in Pilsen, which produced armanents, locomotives, cars and machinery. In northern Bohemia was well developed chemical industry. And really many light and heavy industry was located in Sudetenland and owned by Germans. Slovakia was mostly agricultural country and Ruthenia was one big hole... Situation became better when Czech in 1930s realised that having so much industry in Bohemia is too risky and they started to developed industry in Slovakia. Economical base in Czechoslovakia was in really good shape and even Hitler respected that power. Still, Czechoslovakia in game need some „secret weapon“, which makes it playable. Gladly, there is one...

Moravian Edison

A.k.a Josef Sousedík, Czech inventor, industrialist and resistance fighter. You never heared about him? Well, most Czechs and Slovaks too. That is a „legacy“ of communist coup in 1948. Commies tried to erase memory about him – because he collaborate with Western states during WWII and he was a factory owner. Josef Sousedík was born in 1894 and after finishing elementary school he trained as an electrician. After WWI he open his own workshop using his patents and inventions. His workshop expanded into factory employing over 200 people in 1934. The factory went bankrupt in 1934 during the Great Depression and was bought by Ringhoffer-Tatra, which employed Sousedík as a CEO. He also made huge effort in electrification of Czechoslovakia.

Talking about his inventions – he was really talented in electrical engineering – and in 1928 he build his own hybrid car capable to reach 70 km/h, which he used into everyday´s traveling into his workshop – sadly he doesn´t find any investor for mass production and that prototype was destroyed by fire of stable, where it was parked in 1940. He designed in 30s world-unique electrical-mechanic traction for train called „Slovenská strela“ with average speed 92 km/h (common trains of that era have average speed 68 km/h). His another patents was for example V.T.O.L airplane, electric rudder for boats, many industrial electric machines. Real genius who really deserves his nickname.

Fortunately, he was also politically active (2x elected as mayor of moravian city Vsetín – his birthplace) and he recognized nazi danger. In war years he refused collaborate with Germans, he hid many of his patents, refused to release any new ones (he planned to do that after war), even when he was working on anything, he try to delayed that works as much as possible. Only reason – he don´t want to support German war machinery. And he lead his own resistance group.

But after betrayal he was arrested 15th december 1944 by Gestapo. That interrogation was brutal, but at one moment he stayed alone in room only with one SS-official Körner. So Sousedík threw the typewriter on him and kicked him in his belly. Then he wanted to jump through the window and escaped into the woods. When he was standing in the window frame, Körner recovered himself, pulled out his pistol and shots him.

So Josef Sousedík took all of his patents, which he had only in his head, with himself into his grave. He was only 49...

So why Czechoslovakia fell so easily?

Answer was pretty simple – because demography. If we are looking on census in 1921, we will realised that from 13M of citizens were:

· 6,7 M Czechs
· 2,0 M Slovaks
· 3,1 M Germans
· 0,7 M Hungarians
· 0,4 M Ruthenians
· 0,4 M others

Did you see that number of Germans? They were more than Slovaks. And did you remember Pittsbourgh Agreement? If Czechs granted autonomy for Slovakia, then Germans in Sudetenland will demand it too. And that would be problem, because Germans and Hungarians wasn´t really loyal to Czechoslovakia in early dates of republic. How to solved this problem? Well, they found a solution – in Constitution declared „Czechoslovakian nation with 2 branches – czech and slovak“ and as national language „czechoslovak“. This solution helped in short term to solve this problem, but in long term this „Pragocentralism“ created rising nationalism of minorities, Slovaks included. This trend became critical in 1938 – and was finalized by Munich Agreement. Or betrayal.

Betrayal and broken national spirit

From the beginning was democratic Czechoslovakia surrounded by authoritan regimes. In 1920s was biggest danger „hungarian revanchism“ – so Czechoslovakia mades a defensive pact with Romania and Yugoslavia against Hungary, which was called Little Entente. This alliance was guaranteed by France. Sadly, Romania and Yugoslavia felt into sphere of rising Germany, which controlled about 40% of their import and this alliance was rusting faster than was safe.

With the rise of Hitler and his demands for unification of German minorities (the Sudeten Germans) and return of other claimed territories (the Sudetenland), the alarmed Czechoslovak leadership began preparing defensive plans. In 1935 Beneš made a decision to build a line of border fortification. The objective of the fortifications was to prevent the taking of key areas by an enemy (not only Germany but also Hungary and Poland) by means of a sudden attack before the mobilization of the Czechoslovak army could be completed, and to enable effective defense until allies (UK and France and possibly the Soviet Union) could help. Construction was very rapid and until September 1938 there was 20% of heavy blockhouses and 70% light pillboxes completed. Full system should have been completed by the early 1950s. But... situation has changed.

Even in this uncomplete state that defense line was really frightening for German army. In 1938 they just wasn´t ready to attack Czechoslovakia directly. But then came event called „Munich Agreement“. It all began when UK and France get Czechoslovakia ultimatum from Germany. Czechoslovakia has to cede Sudetenland without destroying any objects (including bunkers ofc). Czechoslovakia refused, but general Krejčí resignated and was replaced by general Syrový (btw. he lose eye in his Legion servitude in WWI). He declared partial mobilization to show Hitler determination of Czechoslovakian citizens. Their determination were really big – bigger than Hitler or Wehrmacht expected. Germans have air domination, but for war was prepared only 39 divisions. Real problem for Czechoslovakia was potentional (and very likely) attack of Poland and Hungary with their territoral claims. But what is interesting, many German officials view on potential war with Czechoslovakia as a suicide mission – and ploting versus Hitler to stop him (Oster conspiracy). (More about czechoslovakian mobilization in 1938 I wrote here )

Nothing of this happened. UK and France called in Munich a conference to solve this crisis. Result is known for everybody – Munich Agreement. What was most insulting – this agreement was made without Czechoslovak diplomats. And because of France (still ally of Czechoslovakia) participation – in Czechoslovakia nobody called it Agreement, but used alternative names as „Munich Betrayal“ and „Munich Dictate“. But Czechs and Slovaks still were ready to refuse it and defend their country with weapons. Sadly – nobody would help them. Soviet Union agreed with help only if France helped too. Czechoslovakia was abandoned. Beneš saw that the situation was hopeless and he agreed with deal made „about us without us“. That decision break czechoslovak spirit for good and crippled Czechoslovakia on many fronts.

Some people says that in that days Beneš circled at his presidential office and repeated, "Don´t worry, I have a plan. I have a plan.“ Unfortunately it became clear that he was thinking not about defense plan but about plane which he used as his escape route into London's exile.

Aftermath

Just few days after that Munich event Beneš resignated and Slovakia declare autonomy. Hungary called First Vienna Arbitration and as direct consequence took southern Slovakia without any resistance. Poland take their claimed parts of Czechoslovakia. In fact, Czechoslovakia was in agony and just awaited for finishing move. That came in march 1939. Hitler invited prime minister of autonomous Slovakia Tiso into Berlin and gave him another ultimatum – declare independence and we will protect you – or refuse it and Slovakia will be consumed by Hungary and Poland. Imagination of being again part of Hungary was for Slovakia scary, so they made decision of independence. Czechoslovakia was no more and rest of it was day after captured by German forces. Nobody protested...

Conclusion

Congratz if you made it here (I was wroting this about 5 hours, geez). I hope I was able to show you history of one small country, which was on the edge of changing history – but after betrayal of those who should protect her she just pumped Germany - and czechoslovakian tanks marched through Champs Elysee. Even after that – many Czechs were flying in the services of RAF and many Slovaks defected into Russian steppes. And what is really funny – due pretty big uprising in august 1944 in Slovakia (supressed by Germans 2 months after) was with Slovaks treated after war as with victors. Impressive performance for German satellite.

But there is still question – what if Czechoslovakia made in 1938 her last stand and choose to fight? Can she stop Hitler and probably WWII? I hope Death or Dishonor can give us pretty good simulation of this alternative – and I am really curious, how PDS can deal with Czechoslovakian Focus Tree...

And yeah, „Legacy of Czechoslovak Legion“ should be National Spirit granting some nice infantry bonuses...
 
Last edited:

albso437

I am not, I'm not really here.
81 Badges
Sep 28, 2000
2.385
415
  • 500k Club
  • Diplomacy
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • PDXCON 2017 Standard Ticket holder
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 200k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
Women got the legal right to vote in Sweden in 1919.
 

cat013

Second Lieutenant
22 Badges
Feb 7, 2016
118
0
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
Soviet Union agreed with help only if France helped too.

Interestingly it was Benes who insisted on making the 1935 agreement conditional on French intervention. Realistically speaking USSR could only do anything if France forced either Poland or Romania to cooperate, as the two countries shared no border back then.
 

MaximillanVoss

Sergeant
31 Badges
Jun 12, 2014
95
58
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • March of the Eagles
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • War of the Roses
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II
One can only hope.
I wish for a national spirit "Tak přísaháme" or something like that.

But I have to say that some people in forums calling Czechoslovakia worthless were really pissing me off. Hopefully this thread will enlighten them.
 

Bane5

Major
57 Badges
Sep 9, 2012
635
1.807
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
I am interested to see what Paradox does with Czechoslovakia.

Caught in a hard place between Germany, Poland, and Hungary who all wanted pieces of it, Czechoslovakia will certainly be one of the harder playthroughs.
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Demi Moderator
89 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
35.244
15.001
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
But I have to say that some people in forums calling Czechoslovakia worthless were really pissing me off. Hopefully this thread will enlighten them.

o_O

People do that? I wouldn't.

It might be hard to defend Czechoslovakia from attack once Germany has taken Austria, but I wouldn't call them worthless. Heck, in our MP game, we have a standing rule that Germany can't be challenged over Munich. No one wants WWII to start in 38 and turn into a mess because the Czechs stand and fight long enough for the RAF and French army to make a difference. :)
 

Phantomiux

Sergeant
73 Badges
Jun 6, 2015
95
91
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Prison Architect
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • March of the Eagles
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
o_O

People do that? I wouldn't.

It might be hard to defend Czechoslovakia from attack once Germany has taken Austria, but I wouldn't call them worthless. Heck, in our MP game, we have a standing rule that Germany can't be challenged over Munich. No one wants WWII to start in 38 and turn into a mess because the Czechs stand and fight long enough for the RAF and French army to make a difference. :)

Yes, they did that - just read the topic where Death or Dishonor was announced. It wasn't hate train in full meaning, but Podcat was promising something like "Axis DLC" and Czechoslovakia didn't look like that promise was fullfilled. And yes - there was a numbers of propositions to add Finland instead of Czechoslovakia - mostly only because they choose fight vs stronger enemy.

As I wrote before, I was writing this long essay in hope that someone unaware of interwar Czechoslovakia's history can understand that this country really had chance to stop Hitler before he became unstoppable but only if France would attacked Germany from west. And as you wrote - in game in some cases Czechoslovakia could stand long enough to make radical difference...

And honestly, I just did one thing wrong - my topic had really bad timing when everyone from PDS is on PDXCON, so even if 1000+ views is nice (way over my expectations), I suppose that 80% of them are just people who get clickbaited by title and nobody from HoI dev team really read it. :-( And I am little scared about way how they can deal with Czechoslovakia's Focus Tree - lot of hungarian players wasn't much satisfied with Hungarian Focus Tree...
 

CrazyZombie

Soviet Bias Tankie
89 Badges
Jun 6, 2016
2.867
406
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
It's a pity, that in current HOI4 USSR can't in some way guarantee Czechoslovakia, forcing Germans to stop. Or bring ultimatum to Poland to get military access for the troops to help Czechs.
PDX provide some very "original" vision of USSR in this period in HOI4.
 

cat013

Second Lieutenant
22 Badges
Feb 7, 2016
118
0
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
Or bring ultimatum to Poland to get military access for the troops to help Czechs.

Wow. Elephants in a china shop. Even if UK and France approved of such action for reasons beyond my mental grasp - it would only push Poland to the Axis side.

Back when agreements between Czechoslovakia, France and USSR were negotiated it was believed that France had enough influence over Poland and Romania to do something about it, but later it turned out to be wishful thinking. Best case scenario for the alternative history where Munich doesn't go the way it did - Romania could be convinced to turn a blind eye to unusually large number of male Soviet tourists suddenly wishing to visit Prague. In game terms: if USSR joins France in the German-Czech war they get to send large volunteer corps, more than normal rules would allow.
 

megaspider01

Future Emperor of Space Sweden
39 Badges
Mar 23, 2013
1.006
704
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
Women got the legal right to vote in Sweden in 1919.
Don't know why you were downvoted, it's correct.

The right to vote in national elections was not returned to women until 1919, and was practised again in the election of 1921, for the first time in 150 years.
//Wikipedia
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Demi Moderator
89 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
35.244
15.001
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
Or bring ultimatum to Poland to get military access for the troops to help Czechs.

Umm, wouldn't France and the UK object just as strongly to that they would to anything else? They'd be trading Soviet expansion for German expansion.

There's no way those Soviet troops are leaving Poland once the crisis is over.
 

cat013

Second Lieutenant
22 Badges
Feb 7, 2016
118
0
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
There's no way those Soviet troops are leaving Poland once the crisis is over.

It was never about Poland per se, but the Polish government believed that Stalin would use this opportunity to take back what is known as Eastern Poland in the West and Western Ukraine in the East. The Curzon line didn't help, of course.
 

Opanashc

Field Marshal
59 Badges
Jul 4, 2010
4.156
1.373
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
Wow. Elephants in a china shop. Even if UK and France approved of such action for reasons beyond my mental grasp - it would only push Poland to the Axis side.
Poland was on Axis side, until it became a target of Germany.
It was never about Poland per se, but the Polish government believed that Stalin would use this opportunity to take back what is known as Eastern Poland in the West and Western Ukraine in the East. The Curzon line didn't help, of course.
Neither did Polish attempt to get back their 1772 borders almost 150 years later. Law of the jungle - stronger one is right.
 

Phantomiux

Sergeant
73 Badges
Jun 6, 2015
95
91
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Prison Architect
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • March of the Eagles
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
Please, stay away from any flame war.

On one hand it will keep this thread really high in forum. On the other hand - it will be probably locked and honestly - how many of you are reading locked threads? I spend a lot of time to wrote original post and it would be sad to end that way.

Honestly - in whole Europe was lack of democratic states in interwar period and many of them turn into autorithan regimes as aftermath of Great Depresion. How many left in 1938? 2 or 3? Maybe more but still its too small number. Second problem - central European region was mostly altered by WWI peace conferences and revanchism was real issue. Hungarian was looking for recreating Great Hungary. Poland was looking for recreating Comonwealth. USSR want spread revolution. Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia was trying to defend their place on the sun. Romania same. Sadly, war was inevitable - and many states just wait for their Casus Belli to justify their demands...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.