Czechoslovakia defence/forts

[TheRomanRuler]

These are more or less contemporary assault guns. Try a bit more and do some research for WW2 and you will find mortars photos.

And you should do research on jokes

 

[Nicolas I]

And you should do research on jokes

I thought you were serious. You should see what some of my students believe because they found it on the Net. As Abraham Lincoln famously said: "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy".

You really got me. Maybe it's time I go to bed.

 

[BoleslavLev]

It seems to me Czechoslovakia in the game is nerfed in comparison to real life. I suspect this is for gameplay reasons so Germany won´t get stuck too early (though that invasion with Hungary seems a bit too much). On the other hand I think people usually overestimate Czechoslovakia in real life in comparison to the historic situation. It didn´t fight because it thought it can´t win - the reasoning was actually pretty pragmatical (even by Beneš himself).

 

[Augustus93]

I think that they have considerably improved the generic national focus tree.

 

[Lollius Palican]

It seems to me Czechoslovakia in the game is nerfed in comparison to real life. I suspect this is for gameplay reasons so Germany won´t get stuck too early (though that invasion with Hungary seems a bit too much). On the other hand I think people usually overestimate Czechoslovakia in real life in comparison to the historic situation. It didn´t fight because it thought it can´t win - the reasoning was actually pretty pragmatical (even by Beneš himself).

Well, then the question becomes if other countries should be 'nerfed' so Germany should be able to easily crush the rest of Europe in MP games, even if they go at it alone. I'm not saying that is the case at the moment (how would we know), or that the start should be more symmetrical. But in MP I believe the German player should have to be smart, dealing with historical difficulties while the others have an inkling that she/he may try to invade everyone. They should not be able to just go "ayy lmao, blitz blitz, fascism is cool" (especially because it's not).

I repost here what I wrote in an earlier thread about Czechoslovakia:

Czechoslovakia was not that overpowered by Germany, at least in the 1936-38 time frame.

From a published study I found, Czechoslovakia despite its limited size made a remarkable mobilization effort prior to 1938 to get the 6th army in Europe. They began as soon as 1932 after the failure of the Geneva disarmament conference.

In 1938 quasi fully mobilized Czechoslovakia - scraping the barrel - had about 42 divisions (including trained reserve divisions) against Germany 47 divisions (plus 8 reserve divisions and 21 untrained Landwehr divisions). Remember that Germany was not mobilized at that time for political reasons, but they had a big potential given some time. The 1936 Czech mobilization plan accounted a potential of 970 000 men.

Czechoslovakia had 2 250 artillery pieces against 3 000 for Germany.
Czechoslovakia had 418 tanks (700 more were ordered) against 2 100 for Germany. Czechs LT34 and LT35 being better than Panzer I and II.
Czechoslovakia had 600 planes against 1 230 for Germany. Germans planes being more modern and diversified.

Czechoslovakia had fortifications (250 forts and 10 000 bunkers), but lacked a bit in AT guns and AA guns. They had good small arms in quantities being a big exporting country.

Great post, thank you. This got me thinking that economy and conscription laws should not only depend on the country already being at war with a much bigger one, but being severely threatened by one. Imagine Austria becoming communist, for instance, they would have been severely threatened by Germany from the get-go. It should be possible to (reasonably) rapidly switch their economy around and 'scrape the barrel' as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Civil_War
(just trying to indicate that there might have been some foundation for a radicalised socialist/communist uprising)

 

[Lolkar]

This came up when i googled "minomet"

Damn, if that thing is mortar... What kind of artillery do you guys have???

Is that even historical vehicle or is it armored spearhead of Photoshop?

As minomet i meant this, but even small infantry mortals.

 

[Lolkar]

There were two Czech armoured divisions in WWW (I think, the icons are a bit hard to see in Twtch's resolution) They were both in the far east of Slovakia and are probably the reason things went so slow on that part of the front. For some reason they have infantry sprites but the icon looks like a tank to me.

Thanks, i will watch it again and give more attention to it.

 

[Vikic]

Is there anything like the Little Entente in the game? It was an alliance between CS, Romania and Yugoslavia to prevent the restoration of Austria-Hungary or any Hungarian offensive. If there was such an alliance in the game it would make early Hungarian conquest of CS impossible. The alliance was later dysfunctional as a result of German actions, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't relevant in the early game years.

It would probably even contribute to an interesting alternate history if Germany didn't succeed with their irredentist plans before the war.

 

[Lolkar]

Is there anything like the Little Entente in the game? It was an alliance between CS, Romania and Yugoslavia to prevent the restoration of Austria-Hungary or any Hungarian offensive. If there was such an alliance in the game it would make early Hungarian conquest of CS impossible. The alliance was later dysfunctional as a result of German actions, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't relevant in the early game years.

It would probably even contribute to an interesting alternate history if Germany didn't succeed with their irredentist plans before the war.

In French national focus tree you could decide to side with Britain or Czechoslovakia and create Little Entente. But other Little entente nations cant affect that. I dont think in SP there will be big chance that France will allie Czechs. (when i will play as Czechs and i would accept it they decide otherwise, when i play as other nation they will allied them)

What bothers me that in WWW they didnt show much diplomacy, they didnt try establish alliances. For example will Romania accept Alliance with Czechoslovakia if they have good relations? This was one of things what i hated in HOI III, nobody accept alliance if it wasnt historical.(Italy-Germany, USA-GB, Romania-Germany, etc.)

 

[Quendallon]

What bothers me that in WWW they didnt show much diplomacy, they didnt try establish alliances. For example will Romania accept Alliance with Czechoslovakia if they have good relations? This was one of things what i hated in HOI III, nobody accept alliance if it wasnt historical.(Italy-Germany, USA-GB, Romania-Germany, etc.)

Well in the WWW the AI is set in historical mode and so is weighted more in to historical paths. so there is very little chance France would pick that particular focus path.
Plus these foci take a while to get where as Daniel could declare war in 1936 :s
I can't help but think that this actually limits the AI's capacity to act when you go a-historical in historical mode.

 

[Sharp163]

It's true, Czechoslovakia's border was almost as defended as the Maginot line, and when Hitler took the Sudetenland he took all their fortifications with it, leaving them defenseless.

 

[Turboflex]

I know I have read that one of the German Generals who kept diaries, Halder or Jodl remarked that when they were inspecting the fortifications after the agreement and they got the Sudentland that they realized the army would have been unable to pierce them had they attacked them head on (which was the plan). I think even Hitler was there too and also acknowledged it. The Czech fortifications were serious and the German army was not built to take them. With 40 Czech divisions manning them they could have held up most of the German army for a long time, leaving the just a few reserve low quality divisions to defend against the entire French Army.

 

[Lolkar]

Czechoslovakia cannot stand alone against Germany mainly becouse of Luftwaffe, our generally had plan slowly retreating from the west to 2nd line of defence at Prague, then into 3rd at Moravia and then they wanted to retreat into mountains Tatry in Slovakia where they would continue to fight. There they would wait for Allies, but nobody would come.

But with Hungary its totally different. They attacked us twice in 1920 and 1938, we kicked their asses. They simply didnt had capacity or training to defeat Czechoslovakia. In Europe universalis countries who felt threatened from aggresive expansion (by Hungary in WWW) would create alliance (Romania and Yugoslavia?) or deal in case of attack? In EU it works, not in HOI. These countries are just like: Oh you just anexed my neighbor and preparing units at my borders, well good luck. I love this game so far and i hope it will be fixed.

 

[TheRomanRuler]

Czechoslovakia cannot stand alone against Germany mainly becouse of Luftwaffe, our generally had plan slowly retreating from the west to 2nd line of defence at Prague, then into 3rd at Moravia and then they wanted to retreat into mountains Tatry in Slovakia where they would continue to fight. There they would wait for Allies, but nobody would come.

But with Hungary its totally different. They attacked us twice in 1920 and 1938, we kicked their asses. They simply didnt had capacity or training to defeat Czechoslovakia. In Europe universalis countries who felt threatened from aggresive expansion (by Hungary in WWW) would create alliance (Romania and Yugoslavia?) or deal in case of attack? In EU it works, not in HOI. These countries are just like: Oh you just anexed my neighbor and preparing units at my borders, well good luck. I love this game so far and i hope it will be fixed.

I don`t know about Vanilla HOI3 anymore, have not played that for ages, but in BICE mod if you start to attack everyone, nations far from war will join faction opposing you.

 

[TheRomanRuler]

I thought you were serious. You should see what some of my students believe because they found it on the Net. As Abraham Lincoln famously said: "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy".

You really got me. Maybe it's time I go to bed.

Lovely quote

 

[TheDungen]

Yeah I feel that czechoslovakia is a bit weak in the game, they were a modern industrialised nation, remember back before the warsawa pact czechoslovakia was considered to be a western country, it's only later they get lumped in with the east.

 

[camfrlas]

Lots was said here, as an "what if" player i too want to see Little Entente in the game and try to fight Germany as part of this Alliance. But i fear game (in its current state) is way too focused on big powers. Small countries are here like extras in the movies, just filling the void, there is not much expecting of them, except for being run over (or neutral all the time). All roads lead to fight among the big powers.

If there are truly no forts in Sudetenland, it's a shame and historical misinterpretation. I hope they will work on those minors in the next two months, because i'd not consider it proper WW2 grand strategy, if it neglected things like this. I don't care, if noone decides to help Czechoslovakia should they decide to fight Germany, but at least make the basis of the country historical.

I was a bit surprised by Daniel's statement in WWW two episodes ago, where he said that he wouldn't like to play as Czechoslovakia, that it is a good country, if you want to be conquered by Germany. I really hope the game is not as railroaded as it sometimes looks like.

 

[TheDungen]

Lots was said here, as an "what if" player i too want to see Little Entente in the game and try to fight Germany as part of this Alliance. But i fear game (in its current state) is way too focused on big powers. Small countries are here like extras in the movies, just filling the void, there is not much expecting of them, except for being run over (or neutral all the time). All roads lead to fight among the big powers.

If there are truly no forts in Sudetenland, it's a shame and historical misinterpretation. I hope they will work on those minors in the next two months, because i'd not consider it proper WW2 grand strategy, if it neglected things like this. I don't care, if noone decides to help Czechoslovakia should they decide to fight Germany, but at least make the basis of the country historical.

I was a bit surprised by Daniel's statement in WWW two episodes ago, where he said that he wouldn't like to play as Czechoslovakia, that it is a good country, if you want to be conquered by Germany. I really hope the game is not as railroaded as it sometimes looks like.

Well I'm guessing that with historical focuses on the czech will usually be forced to give up the sudetenland and thus get conquered by germany. But if playing them then you should be able to take advantage of your knowledge that hitler will not keep his word and stay there and thus not give up the sudetenland.

 

[camfrlas]

Well I'm guessing that with historical focuses on the czech will usually be forced to give up the sudetenland and thus get conquered by germany. But if playing them then you should be able to take advantage of your knowledge that hitler will not keep his word and stay there and thus not give up the sudetenland.

sure, i understand historical and ahistorical settings, but either way, those forts should be there.

 

[TheDungen]

sure, i understand historical and ahistorical settings, but either way, those forts should be there.

Definatly.