Czechoslovakia 1938(in numbers+little about earlier years)

[Edbi]

september 1938(mobilized)

Menpower 1 280 000
Horses 217 000
motorized vehicles 26 000

Rifles 762 000 (only new types)
Handguns(pistols) 188 000 (only new types)
machineguns 40 000 (only new types)

mortar 900 (only new types)
AT cannon 780 (cannons in fortress not included)
field cannons(artilery) 2 270 (included 40 heavy cannons - 240mm+305mm versions)
AA cannon 250
AA machineguns 230

LTs 350
tankettes(I belive it is right word for smaller tanks than LTs) 70
Armored cars 70

armored trains 17 (5 regular, 12 improvized)

planes 950 (610 in first line)


1938
42 - divisions in war time, 1 280 000 men
22 - divsions in peacetime, 232 000 men

1935
38 - divisions in war time, 935 000 men
12 - divisions + 6 brigades in peacetime, 150 000 men

real tank production(not talking about prototypes and mutants like leichttraktor) since 1934

Light tanks

LT vz 34 produced in 1934-1936 50 pieces (+1 prototype)

main armament 37 mm cannon Škoda vz.34 ÚV (true anti tank cannon)
secondary armament 2x 7,92 mm machinegun ZB vz.35
armor 8-15 mm
speed 30kph max
operating range 160km(without refueling)
​

LT vz 35 produced for Czechoslovakia in 1935-1938 298 pieces (+2 prototypes)

main armament 37 mm cannon vz.34 ÚV
secondary 2x7,92mm ZB vz.35 or vz.37
armor 8-25mm
speed 34kph max
operating range 120km(without refueling)
​

LT vz 38 produced for Czechoslovakia in 1938 150 pices of 1st series (in september 1938 not taken by CS army, but ready in manufacturer's warehouse)

main armament 37 mm cannon Škoda vz38 ÚV (true anti tank)
secondary 2x7,92mm ZB vz37
armor 8-25mm
speed 42kph max
operating range 210km(without refueling)
​

Tankette

TČ vz 33 produced in 1933-1934 70 pieces (+4 prototypes 1931-1933)

main armament 2x7,92 mm machinegun ZB vz26
armor 4-12 mm
speed 35kph
operating range 100km(without refueling)
​

Prototype

medium tank

ST vz39 in 1938-1939 2 prototypes

main armament 47 mm cannon Škoda A11(anti tank)
secondary 2x7,92mm mechinegun ZB vz37
armor 12-32mm
speed 43,5kph max
operating range 150km(without refueling)​

something about tank's cannons

vz.34 ÚV

armor piercing shell range - 1500 meters (max range for cannon 4000m - high explosive shell)
penetration - 25mm at 1000m, 45mm at 500m(cemented armor)
rate of fire - 15 rounds/1minute (1 shot every 4 seconds)
​

vz.38 ÚV

armor piercing shell range - 1500m (max range for cannon 4000m - high explosive shell)
penetration - 30mm at 1000m, 50mm at 500m(cemented armor)
rate of fire - 15rounds/1minute
​

Škoda A11 47mm

armor piercing shell range - 1500m (max range for cannon 4000m - high explosive shell)
penetration - 35mm at 1500m, 41mm at 1000m, 48mm at 500m
rate of fire - 12-15 rounds/1minute
​

I made this post because Czechoslovakia looked very weak in Hungary stream, also they didn't have tanks, but I knew Czechoslovakia produced own tanks so I made some researche.
I am now looking for info about airforce, artilery and equpment(rifels, etc), so I will edit this post.
Numbers in first part I have from web page and publications made by Czech historics Dr. Pavel Minařík, CSc. and Mgr. Pavel Šrámek, Ph.D.

every one is welcome to discuse Czechoslovakia and I will be very grateful for every info you can provide about CS Army

PS: I hope devs will update Czechoslovakian tank researche

 

[Dalnar]

Equipment numbers are one thing, these can be always tweaked to balance it in game, but I'm personally more interested about some fundamental aspect of Czechoslovakian state.

Will it start in alliance with France ? After all that is the whole point of Munich, France breaking a 15 years old alliance.

Will the Czechoslovakia start with 1 year draft at the start, because army was something the state build since 1918.

 

[Edbi]

Equipment numbers are one thing, these can be always tweaked to balance it in game, but I'm personally more interested about some fundamental aspect of Czechoslovakian state.

Will it start in alliance with France ? After all that is the whole point of Munich, France breaking a 15 years old alliance.

Will the Czechoslovakia start with 1 year draft at the start, because army was something the state build since 1918.

well I think that French alliance is very difficult to make in game, because it had a lot of ifs + lot of ifs with USSR alliance, also little entente wasn't true alliance but it was restricted around particular aggressor, as game now looks, I think if you give Czechoslovakia full alliance with France or others(ROM,YUG, USSSR) then they will have to fight for CS, if CS will go in war with Germany, but IRL there wasnt alliance like this

 

[Dalnar]

But that's the whole point of "Munich Agreement". The Germany focus should remove the FR/CZ alliance and present a dillemma to the Czechoslovakian State. However, if Germany should declare war on France before Munich, Let's say 1936, Czechoslovakia should follow France in battle.

The Litte Entente focuses in France tree should mainly make sure that other Balkan states follow France as well through treaties with Czechoslovakia.

The Soviet - Czechoslovakia alliance would be very tricky to implement, so I guess that's off the table, but France / Czechoslovakian alliance is something E.Benes build his politics around for like 20 years, before it crumbled at Munich.

 

[endimielle1]

Czechoslovakia was one of the main weapon exporters in the world.
And their tanks in 1936 are really good.
They had (and produced) lots of semi-auto rifles - earlier that Garand and SVT I suppose.

But with all this they had a very long border to defend, and in the game they were stabbed really early, before they could build up their force. And don't forget about superior Da9l's skills in tactical micro. So they might hold much better against AI or even an average player.

 

[Dalnar]

My main problem with the stream where Hungary attacked Czechoslovakia was not that it lost quickly (that's balance). I was shocked by the lack of "little Entente" effect. There were treaties to prevent Hungary to do what Daniel did. If Hungary would declare war on CZ in 1936, France, Romania and Yugoslavia would declare war. Don't forget the alliance was forged in 1920-21 against Hungary, it basically dissolved with Munich, but by 1936 it may have still worked.

 

[Edbi]

But that's the whole point of "Munich Agreement". The Germany focus should remove the FR/CZ alliance and present a dillemma to the Czechoslovakian State. However, if Germany should declare war on France before Munich, Let's say 1936, Czechoslovakia should follow France in battle.

The Litte Entente focuses in France tree should mainly make sure that other Balkan states follow France as well through treaties with Czechoslovakia.

The Soviet - Czechoslovakia alliance would be very tricky to implement, so I guess that's off the table, but France / Czechoslovakian alliance is something E.Benes build his politics around for like 20 years, before it crumbled at Munich.

well conttract between France and CS was more like defensive pact, so I doubt CS would go to war imidietly,there is big what if but they never signed such deal so it is pointless to discuse, as I wrote it was like defensive pact, also Fance was supporter of Little Entente but never was part of it

 

[Edbi]

My main problem with the stream where Hungary attacked Czechoslovakia was not that it lost quickly (that's balance). I was shocked by the lack of "little Entente" effect. There were treaties to prevent Hungary to do what Daniel did. If Hungary would declare war on CZ in 1936, France, Romania and Yugoslavia would declare war. Don't forget the alliance was forged in 1920-21 against Hungary, it basically dissolved with Munich, but by 1936 it may have still worked.

yeah, that schocked me too, afterall little entente was shown in French tree, that + tanks big shock about CS for me

 

[Dalnar]

I was not surprised by lack of tanks tbh. It's true that Czechoslovakia producted arms for export, but it's own army was not that well equiped in 1936. Something the generality tried to fix in the following years, hence your numbers. But keep in mind, your "produced" number also includes vehicles exported abroad.

For example Lt. vz34. Yes 50+1 were build, but Nazis captured 23+1, hence the rest of tanks must have been sold abroad (or they left them to Slovaks).

 

[_Fires_]

My main problem with the stream where Hungary attacked Czechoslovakia was not that it lost quickly (that's balance). I was shocked by the lack of "little Entente" effect. There were treaties to prevent Hungary to do what Daniel did. If Hungary would declare war on CZ in 1936, France, Romania and Yugoslavia would declare war. Don't forget the alliance was forged in 1920-21 against Hungary, it basically dissolved with Munich, but by 1936 it may have still worked.

In the next WWW when Daniel decides to attack Yugoslavia he shows that that country independence is guarantied by France and says something about it being just added in the build. So thats probably why he could attack Czechoslovakia in the previous WWW without fear of Little Entente coming into play. But Hungarian army just rolling through Czechoslovakia is still a bad joke. The post about equipment is on point. I dont expect developers to waste their time and resources on tweaking some minor European countries so a mod making Czechoslovakia playable will be one of the first I will try

 

[Edbi]

I was not surprised by lack of tanks tbh. It's true that Czechoslovakia producted arms for export, but it's own army was not that well equiped in 1936. Something the generality tried to fix in the following years, hence your numbers. But keep in mind, your "produced" number also includes vehicles exported abroad.

For example Lt. vz34. Yes 50+1 were build, but Nazis captured 23+1, hence the rest of tanks must have been sold abroad (or they left them to Slovaks).

no, those are numbers produced for and given to CS Army,Germans didnt get everthing cuz some took Slovaks and some were scraped(or stolen), it is true that some were sold but those are not included and well, Germans got "equip" in 1939, but my numbers are for 1938, only time when i wrote about 1939 was about ST39 prototype

Czech manufacturers exported mainly LT vz35 to Romania(named R-2 by Romania),some also to Bulgaria

 

[Edbi]

In the next WWW when Daniel decides to attack Yugoslavia he shows that that country independence is guarantied by France and says something about it being just added in the build. So thats probably why he could attack Czechoslovakia in the previous WWW without fear of Little Entente coming into play. But Hungarian army just rolling through Czechoslovakia is still a bad joke. The post about equipment is on point. I dont expect developers to waste their time and resources on tweaking some minor European countries so a mod making Czechoslovakia playable will be one of the first I will try

You can ask me anytime for help, I know nearly nothing about moding but I could just look for things(datas, numbers etc)

 

[Dalnar]

In the next WWW when Daniel decides to attack Yugoslavia he shows that that country independence is guarantied by France and says something about it being just added in the build. So thats probably why he could attack Czechoslovakia in the previous WWW without fear of Little Entente coming into play. But Hungarian army just rolling through Czechoslovakia is still a bad joke. The post about equipment is on point. I dont expect developers to waste their time and resources on tweaking some minor European countries so a mod making Czechoslovakia playable will be one of the first I will try

As I said, numbers are just numbers. These can be tweaked to balance the game. But if someone is interested in "historic" games, the alliances in Europe are important thing. I know that Czechoslovakia is in-game minor country. But imho, it was the epicenter of the events leading to WW2 and one of the biggest "what if?" in that time.

 

[Edbi]

As I said, numbers are just numbers. These can be tweaked to balance the game. But if someone is interested in "historic" games, the alliances in Europe are important thing. I know that Czechoslovakia is in-game minor country. But imho, it was the epicenter of the events leading to WW2 and one of the biggest "what if?" in that time.

Yeah,I must agree, I am not crazy about numbers tho, but I also dont like when country like CS looks like Luxembourg, also there should be enough numbers to "hold" Germans for few days maybe few weeks, then could come help from France and others or not. But I think you agree with me that CS we saw is poorly made in game in both army and diplomacy

 

[FOARP]

Don't people get tired of posting these "Country X was military giant!" posts? I've seen every country of any significance in the game accused of being under-powered except the UK so far.

Accept it: some countries historically were quickly defeated in the war, others would have been quickly defeated had they fought. Czechoslovakia was one of those.

Now, if you asked me whether what we saw in the WWW made sense, I would say no - but that's pretty much entirely because Hungary wasn't that strong and because the GPs should have intervened. Not because of the total number of men available to the Czech army or what have you.

 

[Kovax]

Czechoslovakia was historically prepared to fight Germany (although not to win without a lot of support from either France or the Soviet Union), but the Little Entente arrangement was never set up to defend against Germany, mainly against Hungary and/or Austria. France had stated rather clearly in around 1933 that "we will stand by our commitments" and back the Czechs if it came to war, even if it was Czechoslovakia invading Hungary rather than the reverse. Actually, until around 1938, Hungary simply lacked the army to invade anyone, ore even put up a credible defense, while the Czechs had some of the most effective military equipment on the market, and a fairly significant army for the size of the country.

Also, the Czechs had made an agreement with the Soviets to allow Soviet aircraft the use of Czech airfields, but the agreement was never expanded into a full military alliance or guarantee.

The situation shown in the WWW clearly illustrates that the Czechs have been neutered to produce the desired outcome, while Hungary has been given greater military and/or industrial capacity than it actually possessed. That's consistent with the odd depiction of Hungary in HOI3, where it received far more IC (factories) than made historical sense, so it could spam an unreasonable amount of low-tech or basic infantry forces (while historically it struggled just to produce enough rifles for the modest army it fielded), yet was short-changed on Leadership, leaving it incapable of researching the technologies it actually had. It takes most of your available research for a couple of years just to get the R/34 radio which was already in use before the game's starting date, and unlocking Motorized infantry is pretty much out of the question. The historical issue was with insufficient industry to build what it could design or license (much of which was turned over to form CZE after WWI), not being some undeveloped third-world country. It's also consistent with the nerfing of CZE in that game, which didn't even get enough Manpower to mobilize its staring army, much less build up from there, although it got plenty of IC and resources to hand over to Germany.

 

[Denkt]

Accept it: some countries historically were quickly defeated in the war, others would have been quickly defeated had they fought. Czechoslovakia was one of those.

Had Germany been forced to a war at that point would have changed the whole outcome of ww2, likely Germany would have been defeated quite quickly because all weapons they got from the Czechoslovakians would have been used against them instead.

I actually did like how powerful Hungary did become in the WWW stream, I did never feel it was that unresonable that a country who mobilize early could quickly defeat unprepared countries and do something similiar to Barbarossa against Germany.

 

[Edbi]

Don't people get tired of posting these "Country X was military giant!" posts? I've seen every country of any significance in the game accused of being under-powered except the UK so far.

Accept it: some countries historically were quickly defeated in the war, others would have been quickly defeated had they fought. Czechoslovakia was one of those.

Now, if you asked me whether what we saw in the WWW made sense, I would say no - but that's pretty much entirely because Hungary wasn't that strong and because the GPs should have intervened. Not because of the total number of men available to the Czech army or what have you.

I never wrote something about CS being military giant, I just wrote facts, I never wrote CS would beat Germany, I wrote it could hold them for some time (days/weeks), also this game claims to have historical start or something like that(historical path). I wrote you can discuse CS and its ok, and I also wrote I will try to find more info, my objective is to help make it "real". CS wasnt weak as it looked in Hungary stream and well around CS is one of biggest what ifs, but now ppl who are watching streams know that it is pointless to play CS, cuz first they said u will insta die, they showed like Hungary steamrolled CS, yet IRL it was CS who could easily defeat Hungary and Romania with Yugoslavia would love to join to grab part of it too.

If u ask some historians or someone who knows a bit about Europe particularly central Europe,they will tell you that CS was actualy one of ten most advanced countries in that era. Young, small yet with great industry and economics. You know CS in fact inherited most of industry from Austro-Hungarian empire cuz it was build there in czech lands. And for us who like history not just war and ww2 it is very bad feeling to see things like this where country with potential is made to be just meat for fascist. I also hope that Poland is not broken like CS, Romania looked good in 1938/1939 and I am glad for that

 

[Dalnar]

There is also the undeniable fact that about 1/5 of the manpower available for Czechoslovakia was...Germans. Still, even without this "minority". Czechoslovakia had like 3x larger army than Hungary in both manpower, tanks and aircraft. And there was also the whole Little Entente stuff limiting Hungary pretty much to do anything.

From a gameplay point, I can see why removing the Little Entente from the start is "good", i.e. it makes Hungary playable and Czechoslovakia less secure. I can also see why removing the alliance with France is desirable from gameplay perspective, to give more room to Germany. On the other hand, gimping Czechoslovakia so it acts just like an IC freebie for Germany feels wrong. There should be risk for Germany player in Munich agreement and using military force to enforce it should be costly.

Hopefuly, it won't end like HO3 and can be funny country to play in multiplayer.

 

[Mirage2k]

I'm not Czech, but I was really disappointed in HOI3 at how weak the czech industry and military was. It should of course be not even remotely close the great powers, but it did actually have among the most developed industries in Europe at the time, and was one of few non-Axis nations that really invested in mobilizing before the war. They should not be able to stand alone against Germany, no matter how many Central/Eastern European allies they have. However they should be among the strongest in Central Europe, definitely stronger than agricultural Hungary which in HOI3 has almost twice the available IC for some reason.

As a history geek I have to agree with Edbi here. CS should have almost as much IC and leadership as Poland, but with less manpower, resources and smaller starting army, and thus rank second in power among the Central European minors: Poland > CS > Austria > Hungary. Of course Germany should still be able to beat them all at the same time if it doesn't need most of the army somewhere else.