Cutting the cost of exploration

[unmerged(9347)]

we all know how expensive exploration is at sea. Trying to get around the cape of good hope will cost you tons of ships right?

I was reading up about the exploration period and most of the exploartion was done by non warships. Interesting huh?

I dont know about you guys but maybe because explorers turn up with a warship or 3 i always use them to explore. Think about it, a warship cost 3 times the price of a transport. Whats the chance of running into a pirate? you can always flee anyway.

Maybe this is the key to england getting to india early. I think i might try playing england again just to see

 

[unmerged(4260)]

I think the key to England getting to India early (if it is AI) is more likely due to the fact that the AI doesn't suffer naval attrition. I think the warships are the fastest ships, so you will probably want to use them anyway. My way of exploration is to use "naval bases" like Cape Verde, Isle Royale, Fernando Po, Bourbon/Mahe, St. Helene, etc. They are easy to colonize and make exploring quicker and cheaper (tell me the cost of getting a settler on Cape Verde, Fernando Po, Table, and Bourbon isn't cheaper than the ships you will lose getting to India without them)

 

[Owl]

Transports suffer less from attrition, too, so I always supplement an explorer's three warships with a few transports to keep him alive a bit longer. I haven't noticed the transports moving any slower.

Of course you can't build transport ships in 1419, you need to advance a couple of levels in naval research first.

 

[unmerged(9347)]

You are right AI non attrition does make it easy for them

i know my last game as england the problem with stage-ports was getting one. the few places that my explorers did find were either populated with rabidly aggresive natives or already grabbed by the portuguese.

I know my 1st game i got fernando po and i think it was table or something on the south african coast. That made it easier but requires luck (or a conquistador/explorer combo which i didnt have

 

[Castellon]

Transports travel at the same speed as warships until Naval tech 49, at which point naval expolration by explorers is redundant. You can explore with transports alone. Also because of the way attrition works it is often better to expolore with 1 ship in the fleet. You can build a transport at Naval tech 4 which you should have well before the main exploration period starting at 1500.

 

[unmerged(9176)]

Originally posted by Castelion
Transports travel at the same speed as warships until Naval tech 49, at which point naval expolration by explorers is redundant. You can explore with transports alone. Also because of the way attrition works it is often better to expolore with 1 ship in the fleet. You can build a transport at Naval tech 4 which you should have well before the main exploration period starting at 1500.

But if you only have 1 ship and the attrition gets too high (unexpected storm or such), will you lose your explorer to the waves?

-G

 

[Owl]

Originally posted by glorinc


But if you only have 1 ship and the attrition gets too high (unexpected storm or such), will you lose your explorer to the waves?

-G

Yes. Some players are quite ruthless in sending the poor guys off on suicide missions.

It was suggested (before EU2 was released) that any knowledge gained by an explorer who dies after his last visit to a friendly port should be lost. (Like in real life.)

 

[chegitz guevara]

Ooh, harsh.

I always switch my explorers to transports. Unfortunately, as I often get to the Carribean late, it means I'm doing a lot of fleeing. It is a good way to build a navy on the cheap, though.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Except that you have to maintain all those warships.

 

[chegitz guevara]

It's cheaper to get them for free and maintain them than buy them and maintain them.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's cheaper to get them for free and maintain them than buy them and maintain them.

Yes, it's useful when I play Spain or Portugal, I get almost half of my Navy from explorers.
VERY useful if you want to build up a land army at the same time, and cheaper than going plutocratic in the early game when you desperately need the costly cavalry.

 

[BiB]

U can explore quite easily without losing even one ship. Just return to a harbour regularly. Explore with 2 ships or so, warships are just as fast as transports unless ur at a very high tech level.

 

[unmerged(4260)]

In the logistics category, a 1-ship expedition that heads off into the blue yonder never to return shouldn't yield any exploration gains, yet for some reason they do. Was instant global communication some sort of technology that mankind possessed and lost until the latter part of the 20th century?

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by pavlovs_dog
In the logistics category, a 1-ship expedition that heads off into the blue yonder never to return shouldn't yield any exploration gains, yet for some reason they do. Was instant global communication some sort of technology that mankind possessed and lost until the latter part of the 20th century?

Homing Pigions (sp)

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by glorinc


But if you only have 1 ship and the attrition gets too high (unexpected storm or such), will you lose your explorer to the waves?

-G

If you have 10 ships and get back to port with 40% attrition you have lost 4 expensive ships. If you have 1 ship in the fleet you have lost .4 ships which equals 0 in game terms. If you had 3 ships you would have lost 1. But if you had only one to begin with you would have lost none.

Do you see the logic now.

 

[unmerged(9347)]

thanks guys

now i use just one or two transports to explore and the results are great and cheap

 

[The Andy-Man]

military access.

natives dont ask for much to get good relations, get acces AND maps..... lot easer, i explored all the way to china as England by 1540's doing this once (even had australia )

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Originally posted by Castelion


If you have 10 ships and get back to port with 40% attrition you have lost 4 expensive ships. If you have 1 ship in the fleet you have lost .4 ships which equals 0 in game terms. If you had 3 ships you would have lost 1. But if you had only one to begin with you would have lost none.

Do you see the logic now.

Not sure it's like this.
10 ships, lose the first at 10% attrition
now 9 ships, lose the first at 11.1% attrition
now 8 ships, lose the first at 12.5% attrition
Now 7 ships lose the first at 14.3% attrition
so at 40% total I will still come back with 7 ships. It takes 48% attrition to knock off 4 ships. This really matters when you try to decide whether to send 1 ship or 2 ships. With 10 it's not a huge effect.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock


Not sure it's like this.
10 ships, lose the first at 10% attrition
now 9 ships, lose the first at 11.1% attrition
now 8 ships, lose the first at 12.5% attrition
Now 7 ships lose the first at 14.3% attrition
so at 40% total I will still come back with 7 ships. It takes 48% attrition to knock off 4 ships. This really matters when you try to decide whether to send 1 ship or 2 ships. With 10 it's not a huge effect.

It's not quite like that (I think).

At 10% attrition you have a 10% chance per ship of losing that ship.

But I agree with the general idea that you should only send explorers out with one (or possibly two) ships.

BarristerBoy

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Are you sure? I'm basing my thinking on what's in the save file - when the force size gets to around 0.1 ships, I know the expedition is going to be wiped out really soon, and if you load up a game with 1.1 ships that second ship will always die almost immediately. I haven't tested this in detail, but this is what I remember observing. If you're theory is right I don't see why the force size is saved as 12.0135 ships.