Current things I would like to point out.

[Satonir]

Yo guys! Our cozy MP community continues tasting the game and we have some newcooked meal for our lovely devs to look at. Most players will be disappointed and be thinking of leaving the conversation, but I mainly want to suggest a pair of buffs and nerfs. And bugfixes. I'll be adding points slowly bcz a bit busy nowadays.
1. Tormented is a huge underperformer. 9 range full-action aoe seems not bad... Partially. It is still full-action and for some reason it has 1 tirn cooldown. The rest 5-range abilities seem very weak. This unit is definitely not a tank, and the game wants it to come close to enemy to deal pretty little damage or use a single target not that strong control ability. If l had to choose between teching to tormented and spamming barragers, i'd prefer the second option.

 

[NINJEW]

The tormented is an artillery unit, like the disassembler, so the 9 range full action 1 turn cooldown attack definitely isnt changing. Having a high damage psi aoe is also pretty nasty

I agree that the unit is pretty anemic outside of that though. Both the bombardon and the disassembler have really scary non-artillery attacks and the tormented doesn't really. For being 5 range the attack could easily have its damage boosted or an inflict like catatonic attached.

I don't really think kirko in general need the buff though. I'd rather look at getting assembly into shape first

 

[Satonir]

2. Malictors with biochemical damage mod are still doing damage multiplied by much more then 1.2, which can result in 30 damage per shot w 3 mods out of 9 without any temporary effects. It seems much more about 1.8 instead of 1.2.
3. Monitor placing operation should lose its animation and sound effect. If enemy has it on the screen when placed, u simply spend energy for nothing because no detection is needed to find a monitor.
4. Adding some new map sizes or map size sliders would be very helpful.
5. Once again I ask for combat cards rework.

 

[Zaskow]

Why anyone doesn't mention another 'glorious' unit - SUBJUGATOR?
It's worse in every aspect comparing with previous unit - Wraith Tank. Weaker attack, weaker main stats, cumbersome, more expensive.
Deploy Cerebral Control Collars - isn't a deal really, coz works only vs. infantry (~t1-t2 units), have too long cooldown and needs full action.
Activate Reanimation Collars - reanimate 1 indentured unit with full HP. Once per battle. Seriously?
Project Agony Field - inferior version of normal 'artillery' ability.
Unit needs rework or balancing. Add some more buffs or interesting abilities around indentured feature. Like revive all indentured in 1 range radius. Buffs for accuracy/critical/dmg/whatever for all indentured in stack/on field.

REVERSE ENGINEER - I know that devs tried to buff it at 'tyrannosaur', but... Result still is pretty mediocre. I'd say that old version was better in some areas, especially when eating corpses resets abilities. Also unit is expensive as hell. REVERSE ENGINEER doesn't worth 90 energy.

Lightning Rider - just give its main attack 7 range like other flyers have. Riders have no chances vs. other flyers if air combat takes place. Don't mention evasive maneuvers, not only riders have this ability.

VANGUARD - ENGINEER - buffed not enough, PUG is better and can use abusive tactics with 2 pugs resetting each other endlessly.

DVAR - EARTH CRUSHER - main attack was overnerfed, 7 range is just right.

 

[Satonir]

6. Quantum avatar.
2 shields + 3 shields and stagger resist aura is a t3 mod level
Dimensional instability + change location + massive impact stagger to attackers at any range is a t3 mod level.
But if those two things come together, it is totally and definitely not t3 mod level. T4 and not less, this mod is simply the strongest t3 mod in the game. Either weaken it (community suggestion is to remove stagger) or make it more expensive to use.
7. Phoenix bombs launcher. With those i killed 2 unmodded wraiths with full health bar in 1 non-crit shot in a decisive fight. Idk for sure but maybe it needs to be weakened just a bit.

P.s.: can say not much about other suggestions, but would like to point out that the RE really needs some attention (maybe it should replace other t2 in Assembly starting army and become a bit cheaper)
Can not agree with giving +2 range to lightning riders. They have their niche and they sometimes are good at what they're designed for

 

[NINJEW]

the RE i think is fine, but it (and assembly in general, but especially the RE) suffers a whole lot from every assembly mod pre-reassembly just being a dumpster fire. flesh tearers is pretty good value if you're fighting bio units and that's about it, the assembly mods are so bad and if those were improved the RE would be way better

the construct inheriting mods is a gateway to potentially lots of really good plays but because assembly's mods suck ass it doesn't actually get any

 

[Satonir]

Ok I'll tell my opinion on Assembly.
1. They have no ways to penetrate armor and shields which makes them bad in late game against highly armored/shielded targets.
2. Considering mods: the corpse consumer mod made them much better in defence potential. Assembly mods are mostly pretty mediocre. Among their blind spots come the lack of specific defenses and stagger resistance.
3. Assembly units are pretty expensive while remaining mostly pretty easy to kill. After last patches electrocutioneers became much better that they were, but still their little survivability makes them lose, i.e. to same number of vanguard troopers in manual fight. It is again a question to be asked to Assembly defensive mods which are altogether no match to i.e. Nanite injectors.
4. Assembly is good at playing Scholar build, i'd even say the race is meant to go Scholar. Any self-sufficient secret tech like Heritor or Psynumbra shines as Assembly. Assembly can reach the strongest units and build them faster then all other races. And I'd conclude that this is their niche.

 

[Hamster1810]

1) The Venom Malictor is bugged, I rp it to the development. Wait for the fix in next patch.
2) The Tormented is an Psi AoE Artillerie... so plz dont even think give them a buff... The Psi atk already bypass all armor and if you ever face a Psynumbra enemy, you will eventually hate this Tormented for it's long range AoE with many Mind Break ability.
3) If you think the Kir'ko themself weak an range atk... you'r completely correct. The Kir'ko strong at melee, so try to focus on that instead a range buff for them... or else, we would have the Kir'ko swarming across all games you had.
4) Placing a monitor without being noticed would be damn fine... but that would eventually make the game less competitive. In most of Strategy games, the "Fog of War" is so important that affect every aspect of the game. Back to the classic Age of Empires, I always been wondered why people still playing games with "Fog of war" turn off... that make no sense for "strategy".
5) The Subjugator is cleary a support unit. With a cooldown ability to convert your enemy, and once time ability to ressurect your ally. You might say they'r not worthed the cosmite spent... but to be fair, they'r the only unit ingame that allow you to "convert" your enemies to your side. If the Subjugator ever had cheaper cosmite spent, I'd have mass field them and see all my enemies turned to my call.
6) Lightning Rider? I, here, suggest you'd loved to try my combo, the Lightning Rider + Phase shift + Arc STun mod. Well, I still admit that w/o this combo, I rarely use these Riders for actual combat. However, I still think the Riders doing fine compared to their tier
For others, I agree with you all. Esp the Engineer, that requires a big research for the Missile Turret for being useful. Suggest lower the Missile Turret research.

 

[NINJEW]

Ok I'll tell my opinion on Assembly.
1. They have no ways to penetrate armor and shields which makes them bad in late game against highly armored/shielded targets.
2. Considering mods: the corpse consumer mod made them much better in defence potential. Assembly mods are mostly pretty mediocre. Among their blind spots come the lack of specific defenses and stagger resistance.
3. Assembly units are pretty expensive while remaining mostly pretty easy to kill. After last patches electrocutioneers became much better that they were, but still their little survivability makes them lose, i.e. to same number of vanguard troopers in manual fight. It is again a question to be asked to Assembly defensive mods which are altogether no match to i.e. Nanite injectors.
4. Assembly is good at playing Scholar build, i'd even say the race is meant to go Scholar. Any self-sufficient secret tech like Heritor or Psynumbra shines as Assembly. Assembly can reach the strongest units and build them faster then all other races. And I'd conclude that this is their niche.

as an "assembly main" i'd say i agree with that assessment. i will however, also point out that assembly has literally 0 capacity to defend against psi damage at all. all fo their units only get armor and all of their mods only grant armor, and this makes gains like the corpse processor mod pretty superficial

also the actual "eat a corpse to heal" thing is really niche to actually use considering it's once per battle and you need to stand in a spot where someone else just died to use it.

assembly needs buffs and i'm real mad about it

 

[Zaskow]

They have their niche and they sometimes are good at what they're designed for

Sometimes, good? Lolwut? What about making them good all the time like Gunship, Engulfer etc?

With those i killed 2 unmodded wraiths with full health bar in 1 non-crit shot in a decisive fight

It was crit, I remember.

1. They have no ways to penetrate armor and shields which makes them bad in late game against highly armored/shielded targets.

Theoretically, they have firearm mod ignoring 3 shields...

3) If you think the Kir'ko themself weak an range atk... you'r completely correct. The Kir'ko strong at melee, so try to focus on that instead a range buff for them... or else, we would have the Kir'ko swarming across all games you had.

My dear friend, pure melee builds in multiplayer of PF is almost useless. In SP it's possible, but there we are not talking about ways to abuse poor AI.

5) The Subjugator is cleary a support unit. With a cooldown ability to convert your enemy, and once time ability to ressurect your ally. You might say they'r not worthed the cosmite spent... but to be fair, they'r the only unit ingame that allow you to "convert" your enemies to your side. If the Subjugator ever had cheaper cosmite spent, I'd have mass field them and see all my enemies turned to my call.

In multiplayer to the time when you get Subjugator you'd clear almost all part of your map. No targets to convert. And convert what? T1 cheap meat which can be built non-stop faster?

6) Lightning Rider? I, here, suggest you'd loved to try my combo, the Lightning Rider + Phase shift + Arc STun mod. Well, I still admit that w/o this combo, I rarely use these Riders for actual combat. However, I still think the Riders doing fine compared to their tier

I marked most important part. You know good unit should be good even without mods.

About Assembly mods. I think it would be nice to see Assembly as hybrid armor-shield race like Kirko. Some defensive mods can go with shields instead armor.

 

[Hamster1810]

If possible, I'd like to have a match with you in hope that I might change your consideration about melee Kir'ko. Thus, the simpliest strategy when playing these kind of game is focus on your race strength while cover your weakness. Yet, I'v never mentioned using melee Kir'ko only, just "focus" on their strong point, the melee power.

For Subjugator, I agree that they'r kinda weak in combat. I clearly state that they are sp units, not fit in the front lines. However, I'd love to mass field the Subjugator if only the cosmite cost were lower. That's my point. They'r not weak, just not worthed the cosmite spent. Though, I think it's fair.

Finally, if you compare the Riders to other T2 Flying units, they are doing just fine. An arc base flying non-machine unit that can be healed, and naturally counter to other flying machines.

 

[Hamster1810]

And for the Assembly, they don't need any armor/shield penetrate. Their Arc dmg is natural counter for strong amor machines, while the Kinetic phase modulator allow to bypass 3 shield already.

For others, I have no objection.

 

[Ericridge]

Yo guys! Our cozy MP community continues tasting the game and we have some newcooked meal for our lovely devs to look at. Most players will be disappointed and be thinking of leaving the conversation, but I mainly want to suggest a pair of buffs and nerfs. And bugfixes. I'll be adding points slowly bcz a bit busy nowadays.
1. Tormented is a huge underperformer. 9 range full-action aoe seems not bad... Partially. It is still full-action and for some reason it has 1 tirn cooldown. The rest 5-range abilities seem very weak. This unit is definitely not a tank, and the game wants it to come close to enemy to deal pretty little damage or use a single target not that strong control ability. If l had to choose between teching to tormented and spamming barragers, i'd prefer the second option.

Tormented is a support unit. You don't want too many of them but having some of them can just mess the enemies up with its insanity ability. And it can't be dispelled from what I know at the moment. I took a break from planetfall. xD It made my tanks go crazy for several turns and i couldn't do anything about it other than sending a healthy beefy t3 to park next to it and hope it gets shot by the crazed tank. Its a subtle unit, it removes a number of enemy units from field for X amount of turns. Plus they do PSI damage, that's armor bypassed. Think about it in kir'ko terms, several enemy units going crazy is units that's not shooting at you as you send in your kir'ko units in a melee charge. 9 range is killer. Strong.

Why anyone doesn't mention another 'glorious' unit - SUBJUGATOR?
It's worse in every aspect comparing with previous unit - Wraith Tank. Weaker attack, weaker main stats, cumbersome, more expensive.
Deploy Cerebral Control Collars - isn't a deal really, coz works only vs. infantry (~t1-t2 units), have too long cooldown and needs full action.
Activate Reanimation Collars - reanimate 1 indentured unit with full HP. Once per battle. Seriously?
Project Agony Field - inferior version of normal 'artillery' ability.
Unit needs rework or balancing. Add some more buffs or interesting abilities around indentured feature. Like revive all indentured in 1 range radius. Buffs for accuracy/critical/dmg/whatever for all indentured in stack/on field.

REVERSE ENGINEER - I know that devs tried to buff it at 'tyrannosaur', but... Result still is pretty mediocre. I'd say that old version was better in some areas, especially when eating corpses resets abilities. Also unit is expensive as hell. REVERSE ENGINEER doesn't worth 90 energy.

Lightning Rider - just give its main attack 7 range like other flyers have. Riders have no chances vs. other flyers if air combat takes place. Don't mention evasive maneuvers, not only riders have this ability.

VANGUARD - ENGINEER - buffed not enough, PUG is better and can use abusive tactics with 2 pugs resetting each other endlessly.

DVAR - EARTH CRUSHER - main attack was overnerfed, 7 range is just right.

Bruh, Subjugator is a supporter. Its literally a very fat man that is on the verge of having a heart attack on a floating chair. And it's basically as tough as a wraith tank. 60 hp, 1 armor and 3 shields to wraith tank's 60 hp, 2 armor and 3 shields. Only 1 armor less. Treat deploy cerebral collars as once per battle ability then you'll be pleased when it comes up for 2nd time ready to go. Its not a main combat unit like wraith tank yeah. But its abilities isnt' something to be ignored. Its just a victim of how pvp games play out. Game ends quick so people look down on him as worthless.

I've occasionally seen subjugators and indentured servants in their armies and that have abilites that they arent' supposed to have but can have now because they got indentured by it xD It basically applies to any t1-t2 units and if they have special abilities, they keep it when they get indentured. Believe it or not, subjugators is quite high on my KOS list actually. They threaten a bulk of what my armies is, which is mostly t1-t2s. Its more of a lategame unit. Can be quite invaluable supporting an infantry stack that's far away from the main stacks of your empire.

Vanguard engineers is pretty decent now actually. I used to almost never build them because their turrets used to explode if they got sneezed on. Its just that, engineers is more of a direct combat support that augments firing power of the stack while pugs is much more defensive oriented in nature by healing/making ur units harder to be hit. Engineers is quite valuable if you spot enemy units that is super evasive and you'll need them to help hit or fire away shots at extreme range that'll have high chance of missing otherwise.

Reverse engineer doesn't eat Crushers with its ready to go resurgence anymore, this is a significant buff for assembly AIs. Assembly got bit more tougher to fight before, it used to be like, explode dangerosu targets and then have reverse engineers eat them and remove them from field for me and then I win.

No commentary on other units tho.

 

[Zaskow]

Thus, the simpliest strategy when playing these kind of game is focus on your race strength while cover your weakness. Yet, I'v never mentioned using melee Kir'ko only, just "focus" on their strong point, the melee power.

Thing is that your statement 'Kirko has weaker range than melee' is completely wrong. Using Hidden and Barragers you can play more safe and effective.

I clearly state that they are sp units, not fit in the front lines.

And which support ability Subjugator provides? 1 once per combat revive? Convert? Haha. If you're looking for REAL decent t3 support take Barons, Prometean Tanks or Star guide. Subjugator is a joke, but not support.

An arc base flying non-machine unit that can be healed, and naturally counter to other flying machines.

Harrier riders and Engulfers say hello.

Tormented is a support unit. You don't want too many of them but having some of them can just mess the enemies up with its insanity ability. And it can't be dispelled from what I know at the moment. I took a break from planetfall. xD It made my tanks go crazy for several turns and i couldn't do anything about it other than sending a healthy beefy t3 to park next to it and hope it gets shot by the crazed tank. Its a subtle unit, it removes a number of enemy units from field for X amount of turns.

Insanity on 1 unit with 3 turns cooldown? How scary lol... Insanity is also easily dispelled.

augments firing power of the stack

1 unit per 2 turns, not stack.

Engineers is quite valuable if you spot enemy units that is super evasive and you'll need them to help hit or fire away shots at extreme range that'll have high chance of missing otherwise.

'Owls' is my answer.

Bruh, Subjugator is a supporter. Its literally a very fat man that is on the verge of having a heart attack on a floating chair. And it's basically as tough as a wraith tank. 60 hp, 1 armor and 3 shields to wraith tank's 60 hp, 2 armor and 3 shields. Only 1 armor less. Treat deploy cerebral collars as once per battle ability then you'll be pleased when it comes up for 2nd time ready to go. Its not a main combat unit like wraith tank yeah. But its abilities isnt' something to be ignored. Its just a victim of how pvp games play out. Game ends quick so people look down on him as worthless.

Again, which support ability Subjugator provides? 1 once per combat revive? Convert? Haha.
Also in our PvP games we have enough t3 units, even t4 take place, but Subjugator isn't worth it.

 

[Satonir]

To Zaskow: yes it was crit, but it pre-showed me oneshot before I clicked the right mouse button, so the fact it was crit changed nothing.


Also Engulfers are totally not op anymore. Gunships are better then LR in everything but aoe damage&status applying. Again, they're for different occasions.

Also i vote against buffing fliers. If u want to level them, make Nanite injectors appliable to ground units only and think a bit over evasion mods.

 

[Hamster1810]

If we consider "units that have support ability" is "sp units"... then Subjugator is no question, a sp unit. We dont take mod here, just their own ability. Each race, secret tech have their different working units... so a Baron quite useless if put into a Syndicate group, worst, a Kir'ko group.

So, what kind of comparision you'd like to have?
1) Do Baron revive their Bulwak w/o Mod? No...
2) Do Baron can cover his flank with just one simple click? No...

And... let's say which t3 unit that have a revive ability w/o mod? Only Subjugator... you might say lower SP units do just fine than Subjugator so you could spend the precious cosmite to high dmg t3 units instead.
That's I totally agree. The problem of Subjugator is the cosmite cost too high. Let's say, If the cost reduce to 10, also meaning make the Subjugator t2, I'd love to mass fielding them

 

[FerrokenFibrous]

Tormented is a support unit. You don't want too many of them but having some of them can just mess the enemies up with its insanity ability. And it can't be dispelled from what I know at the moment. I took a break from planetfall. xD It made my tanks go crazy for several turns and i couldn't do anything about it other than sending a healthy beefy t3 to park next to it and hope it gets shot by the crazed tank. Its a subtle unit, it removes a number of enemy units from field for X amount of turns. Plus they do PSI damage, that's armor bypassed. Think about it in kir'ko terms, several enemy units going crazy is units that's not shooting at you as you send in your kir'ko units in a melee charge. 9 range is killer. Strong.

Its Insanity is a range 5 single target ability, completely different and separate from its range 9 AoE attack.

Insanity on 1 unit with 3 turns cooldown? How scary lol... Insanity is also easily dispelled.

Insanity, like Panic, can technically be dispelled, but it's useless to do so because the only time they can be dispelled is after they have already done their intended effect of wasting your affected unit's APs or if the player who inflicted insanity/panic made a whoopsie and dispelled it themselves. Easily dispelled? More like easily wasting dispels.

With that said though, the super long cooldown does hurt it bad. The short range also arguably hurts it too, but it's kind of the same as the post-nerf Bulwark's concussion in that it's meant to be used more defensively.

If we consider "units that have support ability" is "sp units"... then Subjugator is no question, a sp unit. We dont take mod here, just their own ability. Each race, secret tech have their different working units... so a Baron quite useless if put into a Syndicate group, worst, a Kir'ko group.

So, what kind of comparision you'd like to have?
1) Do Baron revive their Bulwak w/o Mod? No...
2) Do Baron can cover his flank with just one simple click? No...

And... let's say which t3 unit that have a revive ability w/o mod? Only Subjugator... you might say lower SP units do just fine than Subjugator so you could spend the precious cosmite to high dmg t3 units instead.
That's I totally agree. The problem of Subjugator is the cosmite cost too high. Let's say, If the cost reduce to 10, also meaning make the Subjugator t2, I'd love to mass fielding them

With a few exceptions that do well enough without mods such as PUGs, or cannot be modded in the first place such as tactical summons, most units are meant to be modded, even with just one mod. The game is all about modded units, an unmodded T3 is naturally going to struggle against fully modded T1 units.

With that said, it's better to heal or boost the defence of your units than let them die in the first place. Can Subjugator do that? No. Can Baron do that? Yes. Can Baron do that to Kir'ko? Well, why the heck are you fielding Barons alongside Kir'ko or Amazons when you should be fielding them alongside mech units? Get Transcendents/Biomancers/Overseers instead.

Idk what you mean about covering flanks with one simple click. If you mean defensive mode, literally any unit that isn't a Colonizer has that. If you mean the AoE ability, well Dvar have other units for that job. If you mean the mind control, it's too situational and short-ranged to be a reliable method

Also Baron is decent in a Syndicate group if said group is mostly Wraiths and Mirages. Sure, that's rarer than Syndicate infantry blobs, but if you can invest enough in the Syndicate and Dvar tech trees to make use of it, it's definitely an option.

 

[Hamster1810]

I'm glad that you finally mention Mods. So your point here, "A fully modded T1 units are far superior than an unmodded T3", correct? Then revive that t1 unit still an option, which to be said, the common strategy of Syndicate is based on their Indentured.
And here, I will go a lil' further for the "IF". Subjugator weakness is their cosmite spent, this my point. So "What if" the "revive" ability is transfered to the Overseer? I'm fine "IF" with this new ability, the Overseer is 10 cosmite expensive.

Fun fact: Back to older AoW, "Revive" ability always been an annoyed and OP that was limited to certain races and tech. So I'm quite surprise here that you think they're not worthed attention.

And for Modding, what make you think the Subjugator don't have Sp and defensive mod? With Psynumbra Mods, ain't the Subjugator equal to the Tormentor with their 9 range AoE Mind break ability? A 7 hex if hit with Madness, Insanity is not a problem? Can Baron do that?
C'm if you go with mods, you would have various options, even a high atk sp unit. So to say, with decent mods, the Subjugator unexpected useful. Let's back to unmod unit, or we could go forever.

For the flank part, I mean the Subjugator can have the same chance with the Baron stagger atk, which have the enemy flanker swayed to your side. Let's go for another "IF" that flanker is a Hero with full points spent to Atk and Health, and a "Limite" Sword in hand. Man, do you really believe your Baron, in this case, could stop this flanker... or a Subjugator would?

 

[Zaskow]

Also i vote against buffing fliers.

I'm not about buffing fliers, I talk about buffing Lightning Riders only. Except some specific builds.

so a Baron quite useless if put into a Syndicate group

Half of Syndicate units is mechanical. Baron is all about buffing and healing mechs.

let's say which t3 unit that have a revive ability w/o mod? Only Subjugator...

Heritor High Lord, Plague Lord, REVERSE ENGINEER...

Easily dispelled? More like easily wasting dispels.

In this case - no, coz Insanity applied for 2 turns.

it's kind of the same as the post-nerf Bulwark's concussion in that it's meant to be used more defensively.

Bulwark's concussion is better coz bigger resistance check and overall psi resistance is more common.

Then revive that t1 unit still an option, which to be said, the common strategy of Syndicate is based on their Indentured.

Not really, it depends from situation on battlefield.

Can Baron do that?

Baron can stun mech unit with AoE ability too.

Let's go for another "IF" that flanker is a Hero with full points spent to Atk and Health, and a "Limite" Sword in hand. Man, do you really believe your Baron, in this case, could stop this flanker... or a Subjugator would?

Subjugator could not too. Deploy Collar doesn't work vs. heroes.

 

[Hamster1810]

Fliers is kinda hard to buff or nerf. They are already have 10% plus harder to hit due to their natural flying. Several units also have evasion add 25% harder to hit at total 35%. And, only rangers can harm the flier (except fliers themself) who depend much on precision. With both atk and def mods, the fliers can become quite trouble already. So I vote for their current strength, same with Lightning Rider. How an Arc-dmg-base hard-to-hit unit with stunning mod and an ability to Mass STun, stagger, both land and air units, is too weak that need a buff?

I rarely use Riders not because of their ineffective, but because the Assembly have better units. For exmaple, their Scouts are doing too well, I fear. A low cost basic flying unit with start-game access plus with many useful abilites: Scouting, Healing, Overwatch (at prime rank) and Stun with Mod.

However, at Sea battles, I rely on the L.R than the squishy Scouts.

Heritor High Lord, Plague Lord, REVERSE ENGINEER...

My, I mentioned T3 unit. So out with the High Lord, R.E and P.G is fine... except the P.G is access only via Xenoplague Tech.

Baron, in the end, I never mention they're useless. However, you just trying to ignore the Baron's limit. Their kits works only for Machines, this is what I want to explain from the start. Each race, each Secret tech have their own way of working.

So basically, with Syndicate, their strategy mostly focus on Indentured... so all buffs, heal and even revive them, all are considered sp ability and all useful in certain cases, based on the situation of the battlefields, as you mentioned. I, too agree that the current Subjugator's cost is not healthy. Switch their place with the Wraith tanks is more convenient.

Last thing,

Subjugator could not too. Deploy Collar doesn't work vs. heroes.

Yes, the Collar works on INFANTRY heroes that not immunity to Mind Control.