Current state of HoI IV

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

Since game launch Paradox has only altered 2 mechanics in an impactful way. #1 Nerfing the commonwealth with gigantic focus trees (at least until around late 42). #2 Changing infrastructure to effect build speed. Thats it, since launch. 10 months with just about zero content added. Im still a MP regular, but many others have moved on, with most citing boredom at a stale meta and poor core mechanics (cancer air war). Meanwhile, CK2 continues to pump out DLC and the EU4 juggernaut charges on.

I feel like our HOI community has been left in the dust.

 

[BurdenedWarrior]

Since game launch Paradox has only altered 2 mechanics in an impactful way. #1 Nerfing the commonwealth with gigantic focus trees (at least until around late 42). #2 Changing infrastructure to effect build speed. Thats it, since launch. 10 months with just about zero content added. Im still a MP regular, but many others have moved on, with most citing boredom at a stale meta and poor core mechanics (cancer air war). Meanwhile, CK2 continues to pump out DLC and the EU4 juggernaut charges on.

I fell like our HOI community has been left in the dust.

CK2 and EU4 are "mature" games. They've been out for a very long time. Large sweeping mechanic changes are possible at this point. Look at the first handful of DLC's from either of those games. Hoi 1.1 to 1.4 is focusing mostly on bug fixes and ai. After major bugs are addressed they can start making more mechanics which they will. After all its only 10 months after release.... Why/how could they make sweeping changes to mechanics by now. Also 1.3 was the first (1st!) DLC and it was a small one, what do you expect. This thread is dripping in toxicity and loathing for the game.

Also the commonwealth "nerf" is only seen as such because generic focus tree is over powered. So really it just became balanced.

 

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

CK2 and EU4 are "mature" games. They've been out for a very long time. Large sweeping mechanic changes are possible at this point. Look at the first handful of DLC's from either of those games. Hoi 1.1 to 1.4 is focusing mostly on bug fixes and ai. After major bugs are addressed they can start making more mechanics which they will. After all its only 10 months after release.... Why/how could they make sweeping changes to mechanics by now. Also 1.3 was the first (1st!) DLC and it was a small one, what do you expect. This thread is dripping in toxicity and loathing for the game.

Also the commonwealth "nerf" is only seen as such because generic focus tree is over powered. So really it just became balanced.

Sure their were a few bug fixes. They even added in the re-sync button (that was bugged for a couple of months after its launch). Mostly the bugs that were fixed were in the AI, but the AI on HOI4 is worked on by only 1 man, and that is his dedicated job. Other than the single poor AI programmer faithfully slaving away on this title, basically no content has been added since launch.

No where did i say i wanted sweeping changes, but all that has been added in 10 months is a few focus trees and some changes to infrastructure. In my mod or in PFU, ive added more content and made more balance changes than Paradox has since launch. CK2 and EU4 get a major expansion every 6 months, all im saying is that in comparison, HOI4 could be perceived as abandonware. Its been totally left up to modders to add balance, content, UI changes, and variety. It makes me sad.

 

[Sourlol]

basically no content has been added since launch.

Multiple new releaseable nations. The country of Manchukuo, 5 commonwealth NF trees, country rebalances, and art. An entire new system of puppet management. Increased functionality for Infrastructure. Multiple balance changes. New garrision functionality, a new battleplanner tactic. Sliders, implementation of improved peace conference, continuous focus, battle log, releasable to be played by the player nations, and voice overs.

Other than all that what have they really done though?

 

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

Multiple new releaseable nations. The country of Manchukuo, 5 commonwealth NF trees, country rebalances, and art. An entire new system of puppet management. Increased functionality for Infrastructure. Multiple balance changes. New garrision functionality, a new battleplanner tactic. Sliders, implementation of improved peace conference, continuous focus, battle log, releasable to be played by the player nations, and voice overs.

Other than all that what have they really done though?

The first 5 were added by modders within the first week of release. Puppet management didnt impact the game in any meaningful way, if youre a puppet and want to break free, just do that side of your focus tree, or click the increase autonomy button, and youll be free within a few months. The garrison button is still broken, and still moves your cavalry divisions everywhere without actually decreasing much resistance. For the "guard port" functionality, thats ok, but again doesnt really impact the game. All the battleplanner and sliders were, was a simple UI and notepad edit change. Seriously you couldve done that at launch in 10 minutes or less. I know because ive done it. The battle log is just creating a function to print out certain info and little UI work, a couple hours there at best. Thats about it. Im not sure how long puppet management took, but everything else was a couple days work at best, by a single person.

Again i give all kinds of credit to the one AI guy and his bug tester, but its tough to argue that HOI4 has seen anywhere near the same caliber of support as EU4 or Ck2.

 

[kekkila]

Thanks to everyone for answers, since I rather love the challenge and even somehow competent AI than walk in a parkI think I'm not going to give it a go yet. I think this game has a huge potential but it takes years to reach its glory. Can't seem to find the same atmosphere and feeling of WW2 in HoI IV that DH, HoI III brought to my screen.

PS. I play singleplayer

 

[Sourlol]

The first 5 were added by modders within the first week of release. Puppet management didnt impact the game in any meaningful way, if youre a puppet and want to break free, just do that side of your focus tree, or click the increase autonomy button, and youll be free within a few months. The garrison button is still broken, and still moves your cavalry divisions everywhere without actually decreasing much resistance. For the "guard port" functionality, thats ok, but again doesnt really impact the game. All the battleplanner and sliders were, was a simple UI and notepad edit change. Seriously you couldve done that at launch in 10 minutes or less. I know because ive done it. The battle log is just creating a function to print out certain info and little UI work, a couple hours there at best. Thats about it. Im not sure how long puppet management took, but everything else was a couple days work at best, by a single person.

Again i give all kinds of credit to the one AI guy and his bug tester, but its tough to argue that HOI4 has seen anywhere near the same caliber of support as EU4 or Ck2.

Given your depth of experience one would think you'd have created a better WW2 Grand Strategy.

I am not a developer, I'm certainly not convinced you are a developer. Pissing match between two people not informed on all the challenges of game design and programming of this game in particular notwithstanding, I was arguing that they have, in fact, added a decent bit of content in the face of your assertion that they hadn't.

 

[Theodorian]

Since game launch Paradox has only altered 2 mechanics in an impactful way. #1 Nerfing the commonwealth with gigantic focus trees (at least until around late 42). #2 Changing infrastructure to effect build speed. Thats it, since launch. 10 months with just about zero content added. Im still a MP regular, but many others have moved on, with most citing boredom at a stale meta and poor core mechanics (cancer air war). Meanwhile, CK2 continues to pump out DLC and the EU4 juggernaut charges on.

I fell like our HOI community has been left in the dust.

This is everything.

1. Submarines are still mostly sub-optimal.
2. Air War is cancerous, at best.
3. Naval War was tacked on.
4. AI abandons the fronts like madness, but UTOPIA AND MANDATE OF HEAVEN DROPS SOON GUYZ

 

[koba134]

The next update will decide the fate of the game in my mind. If, after a year, they cannot deliver a substantial update with meaningful changes and redesign, it means that the current team is simply not up to the task, especially compared to the other teams.

 

[rjohansen]

So far, I have tested HOI4 quite a lot, some 250 hours, and at least one run after each patch. Still. Extremely easy, implausible, unrealistic and the game has absolutely nothing to do with WW2, filled with fantasy and silly stuff. Mods still can't work around it in my opinion, that might change after a while.

Although it has gotten somewhat better than on release, the AI is still a disaster. The game is, in my opinion, still unplayable. I don't care about multiplayer either, I have watched a few streams and it seems it's about "fast clicking" like a RTS game. Not for me. It might work for multiplayer-people, and for people who don't care (or know anything) about history for instance, but it is not a WW2 experience.

Perhaps in a few DLC's down the road and perhaps with better mods later on. But at the moment.

 

[Meglok]

The next update will decide the fate of the game in my mind. If, after a year, they cannot deliver a substantial update with meaningful changes and redesign, it means that the current team is simply not up to the task, especially compared to the other teams.

Hate to say it because I love the potential and concept, but if the battle planner shuffle issues and division rambling around the world isn't fixed in 1.4 I tend to agree and am probably done also. Life is too short to keep hoping for promise and potential to become reality.

 

[Broletariat90]

Hate to say it because I love the potential and concept, but if the battle planner shuffle issues and division rambling around the world isn't fixed in 1.4 I tend to agree and am probably done also. Life is too short to keep hoping for promise and potential to become reality.

I've already leaned myself off this game. I haven't touched it for a month. @podcat said the next DD will be on the 12th, and personally if its just a recap of the fixes hes teased on twitter, I'm done with this game and I'm not looking back. As others have said this game isn't getting the support it should from paradox and I feel like they are purposely letting it die a slow death so they can work on something else.

After a year of waiting and false expectations, people are starting to just move on to something else. I'm not even angry or upset, I just feel like I wasted a lot of time waiting for something that never happened.

 

[rjohansen]

I still play HOI3 though, I feel that it is a much better game than HOI4 in almost every regard, and there are lots of very good mods. HOI4 got some nice features, but not well executed at the moment. And even mods can't fix it. Perhaps one day it will.

But if you feel HOI4 is not good enough, yet, as I do, dig out HOI3, in my opinion, by far, the best game Paradox has made

I have the patience to wait a couple of years. No problem. I just hope HOI4 will one day become a decent game. As of now it seems they have aimed themselves at people not knowing anything (or caring much about) history or WW2. It's more about "fun" and "sillyness" than WW2. I still hope they can turn it around, or at least fix mechanics so that mods eventually can make a good game.

 

[Assault Korps]

Sorry I disagree. And in all due respect: its far away from the "sandbox-style" offering a somehow realistic feel:

• Unlimited divisions? HOI4 got it.
• Trash the Royal Navy? All it takes is one fleet with 4 CVs (naval bombers only) and sufficient screens (LC+DD).
• Want to create an IC/plane deathtrap for the AI? Field a ridicolous amount of fighters and the AI nicely suicides its planes while trashing its IC to replenish.
• Want to invade the US? Field some tank divisions on US mainland - US is all yours.
• Afraid of the vastness of the SU? jut pave some roads for supply and you can even advance with 400 divisions.
• Want a challenge as a minor? Sure until you reached the breaking point - just make the WC, you will own the world.
• ...

The only thing really great in HOI4 is the battle planer. And that battle planer is what stops you from being more successfull since you cant design elastic fronts with pincing spearheads (you can to some extent but not really). All that remains is micro management and then you are ridicolously OP compared tot he AI.

Seriously as long as I dont need TACs or STR, as long as CVs are that overpowered and you can own unlimited units and as long as the AI plain suicides units en masse... no fun to me.

That's easy to correct, just make your own rules about number of divisions, ect. I've done this lots with flawed games and made them great and spent hours using my own little "mods".

 

[Gefallener_Held]

The game really needs work. As I wrote in another thread, the first game where I felt like I really understood everything after several playthroughst to 1940 was spoiled because the Italians just walked into the Suez canal, unguarded.

So I am starting yet again, this time with Expert Ai. Will see if it makes the game playable. It is unfortunate that a mod is required because that mod is not compatible with others. I do hope that there will be a mod that corrects historical inaccuracies with corrected timelines, orders of battle and that provides a passable AI.

ANd it is not just that blunder. The naval game needs a major overhaul. Uboats are just target practice. Hopefully I will that changes after the Fall of France setles in but I am not exactly optimistic. There is also a bug whereby naval battles carry on for months in the Strait of Denmark, and presumably elsewhere. The work around is to disengage, send a small fleet of just destroyers.

I have other gripes as well, such as having to use AI to do naval invasions, having to patrol areas with navies before hand, having to justify a war goal months in advance, giving a nation time to prepare. That stuff I can overlook if the game is playable. Alas I found it was not. Will see if the Expert AI mod fixes that.

 

[Assault Korps]

In HOI3 you could attack immediately using the console command no_neutrality. 4 has console commands but I haven't tried that one yet.

 

[Secret Master]

Puppet management didnt impact the game in any meaningful way,

Are you kidding me?

Deciding whether to try and annex a puppet, or just move them at integrated puppet, and how to achieve these ends is radically different than when the game was released.

Being Britain is much more complicated now. Sure, annexing Malaya seems like a no-brainer, but its going to cost you 300 PP. Where you get that PP from is an important strategic decision. And is India worth 300 PP plus the PP and time and building and lend-lease required to get India to Integrated puppet? Or is it better to leave her at Integrated puppet and use the manpower.

And if I am using puppet manpower, do I spend army XP on templates for my puppets? How much? Would overusing puppet troops cause them to become more autonomous?

What about the Philippines? Manchukou? Is China better as a puppet or annexed? What about the Dominions? Is it worth beating them down to puppet status so the empire has more resources and IC and manpower to fight the Axis?

If you play Japan, Britain, the United States, or anyone who is short manpower and has the option to wipe out other countries, puppet management is a big deal.

 

[him_15]

There is going to be a DD today right? It's already April, and it's Wednesday today.

 

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

Given your depth of experience one would think you'd have created a better WW2 Grand Strategy.

I am not a developer, I'm certainly not convinced you are a developer. Pissing match between two people not informed on all the challenges of game design and programming of this game in particular notwithstanding, I was arguing that they have, in fact, added a decent bit of content in the face of your assertion that they hadn't.

Perhaps your right and im being overly critical. I just really love this game and want to see its potential fully realized. I dont see that happening any time soon. Oak will be another step in the right direction, but thats still 3-4 months or more away. EU4 will probably be getting its next major DLC then.

Im not sure if HOI4 didnt meet their sales expectations, or if Paradox has simply stretched themselves too thin with all their titles. I know the people who work on the game now work hard at it, but it hasnt really put out any results yet.

 

[C-Breeze]

There is going to be a DD today right? It's already April, and it's Wednesday today.

Not 'til next week, from what I hear.