Curious way the USA took over Canada

[unmerged(17791)]

AI actions only, here. By 1882, "The Sioux" only had a little bit of land remaining. Their capital, Rapid City, South Dakota was their only province left in the modern USA's borders. Outside of that, they had about 4 Canadian provinces (that is, those small units of land in Vicky, not actual modern "Canadian provinces"), just north of Montana & North Dakota. Anyway, they're gradually being muscled into landlessness by the white man. Of course, diplomatically they are a satellite of the USA. And a series of events inescapably recedes their lands, now to the UK in Canada, and ultimately they'll be gone from South Dakota as well. Erased from existence, without any fighting. Easy land, for the 'Anglos'.

Then suddenly the UK (apparently) decides that it wants to forcefully take those 4 provinces in Canada, so that it can clean up and dominate the area NOW, not later. Out of the blue, UK spontaneously DoW's Sioux, and effectively starts a colonial war against the USA. Well, Alaska was never sold, Hawaii is still independent, and all of the CONUS (modern lower 48) are core provinces, which of course can't be touched in a colonial war. The Sioux capital, nestled just behind the impenetrable wall of the US cores, is totally safe. The US gears up, and starts to invade Canada, which is mostly controlled by UK, except in the northern areas where the Cree still have some (waste)land. But the UK has all of British Columbia, the eastern half of modern Canada, plus a respectable-sized corridor linking them. Anyway, the Yanks are moving out quickly... apparently the UK didn't really think this through, not just diplomatically, but also by not bothering to increase it's garrisons in Canada.

Soon the U.S. is taking over everything, and even the Sioux are getting a few provinces in the middle there. Canada eventually becomes completely controlled by the Americans. And now, nobody wants to sue for peace. The UK probably can't believe what's happened, the Sioux are comfortable & safe. And America probably wants no less than everything it's taken from Britain on the continent. So, it's a diplomatic standoff, that endures, since the WE rate builds so incredibly slowly. Now, other nations rampage throughout Europe, and UK can do nothing, it's hands tied since it's already involved at war in America. France gets destroyed, the Ottomans are annihilated, and the balance of power is shifting dramatically. A super Russian-German-Italian alliance laughs with amusment. Alas, the 'police man' is permanently off duty...

Meanwhile, btw, British India is massively tied up in a horrific 35-year bloody war w/ China. Couldn't help send expeditionary forces if they wanted to.

My question is; what the heck was Britain thinking?? :wacko: You see the occasional wacko DoW, but this one caught me by surprise.

 

[Rabid Bogling]

Wow. Straw, meet camel, eh?

 

[unmerged(106891)]

You actually HAVE to post the screenshots of this game in the Strange Screenshots thread (I gave a link in another thread where you were on about British India and China being at war for 30 years?). Sounds epic! Hahaha!

I always found that a nuisance how the USA would easily overrun Canada. The British just don't put enough troops there. This was the historical case I seem to remember, however.

Stupid AI!

 

[Cyrus_The_Great]

Yeah thats pretty crazy, I hate unrealistic DOWs that mess up the balance of the game like that.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

You actually HAVE to post the screenshots of this game in the Strange Screenshots thread (I gave a link in another thread where you were on about British India and China being at war for 30 years?). Sounds epic! Hahaha!

I always found that a nuisance how the USA would easily overrun Canada. The British just don't put enough troops there. This was the historical case I seem to remember, however.

Stupid AI!

Normally in USA/UK wars the British can land in the USA itself, as well as have their powerful Indian ally unload massive amounts of troops that force the USA into quickly looking for a way out of the war. But here, they can do neither. Plus, the enemy "alliance leader" (the Sioux), has their capital situated in such a way that it'll never be accessible. Why would the Sioux ever... eh, SUE for peace? They're safe, plus they're actually gaining ground here. No reason they should even accept a white peace.

If I were the US, I'd demand a certain amount of land that would completely box in the Sioux (away from the UK), and then make a separate peace. Then just... let 'em stay at war for the rest of the game.

"This is the voicemail for the United Kingdom. We are unavailable for any real action for the rest of the game, since the Sioux won't let us off the hook. Please leave a message at the tone..."

 

[OHgamer]

Jagdmaus just to confirm, what version of VIP are you playing (for 1.4, for Revolutions) and are you playing at normal-normal. If you play at more aggressive levels, which we do not recommend, you will often see very obstinate/aggressive AI behavior.

THen again even at normal/normal things can often go fubar with a VIP session, even if in 99% of games playes you don't end up with a 30-year War for Dominance in Asia, being stuck in that 1% of games is definitely not optimal.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

Final version (hotfixes, etc.) of VIP for Vicky 1.4 ...normal/normal.

The UK also declared war on ME out of the blue some time in the early 70s. BB was minimal, 3 at most. My military score was about the same as theirs -- almost tied for 1st. Anyway, it was totally out of the blue, and I was taken aback.

It was too ridiculous, and didn't fit into my plans, so I just nevilled my way out of it. o All in good time, I'll face them later. But yeah, the UK is just like a bachelor on the prowl sometimes; lookin' for some action. I wonder, does the AI take into consideration alliances, when it makes a DoW? Going after the Sioux doesn't seem that radical... not unlike it's series of bullying actions in the southern areas of Africa - AI determined DoWs. This was supposed to be another helpless target, but that whole being a satellite of the USA thing just got in their way.

 

[ollobrains]

yeah u get those odd games. If vicky 2 ever comes about id like to see more events possibly triggered

 

[Talquin]

i've had germany colonial war me. had one place that I forgot to grant statehood to so first thing I do is grab all of germany's pacific holdings and then I grant statehood to my first one.

 

[ollobrains]

yeah its a bit wierd like that

 

[jdrou]

apparently the UK didn't really think this through, not just diplomatically, but also by not bothering to increase it's garrisons in Canada.

This is exactly the major problem with the AI and I don't think scripting can really help much. The AI needs to be able to examine possible consequences before acting and make preparations before declaring war. e.g. make the decision to declare war but before actually doing it start moving forces into position. Hopefully the source code modders will be able to make some improvements here.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

Since this thread is still getting bumped, I'll add that the UK is now in separate wars against:

1) Sioux & USA (AI choice)

2) Egypt (from event)

3) France (France DoW'd & annexed Madagascar, UK had a guarantee)

The only one the UK has any of it's allies involved, is the one against France (but of course India has it's hands full w/ China). Of course all these are colonial wars.

The Ottomans (unciv, after the Tsar of all Slavs event) had/have a defensive alliance w/ (unciv) Egypt, but that didn't trigger, since it's a colonial war. -That's stupid.

Anyway, the USA actually is leading the world in naval vessels. They have as many cruisers as the UK (7 each), plus a whole bunch more in IC's and MO's (12 each, to UK's zero). The UK navy is being destroyed. They're down to ~7 MW's, 7 CA's, 2 FR's, and... ZERO clipper transports, and THREE steamer transports. France is being decimated as well. Remember I sunk all their transports, plus a few others. Now they're being finished off.

It's funny. The UK likes to have 'realistic' shipping lanes, with a convoy system going all over the place. Seemingly for no frickin' reason. Anyway, they can't hide from the USA navy. I see US cruisers going around, like heat-seeking missiles, nailing all these convoys. They're pretty aggressive, as if they have radar. But yeah, at the end of this, the USA and myself should be the only ones with a navy worth talking about. Maybe I can bring the USA into alliance. In the end, we're all going to gangbang Britain. That's how my game's going to climax. A place in the sun... pah... try a shady place behind the woodshed.

Unfortunately AUS and PRU are going to be hard to catch in terms of their game score... They're leading everyone else by a mile. But I just finished the 4th tier of army techs, and now the massive buildup is about to begin.