Curious about staying indepedant daimyo, have Q's

[Vampiresbane]

1. What government rank are Independent Daimyos?
2. If I vassalize and integrate the shogunate, do I then become Shogun?
3. If I vassalize the shogunate, can I stay an independent Daimyo?
4. I'm not sure what the different values signify for morale and combat ability (+2.5/5/10% Morale of armies). What makes the values change in-game?

 

[Vampiresbane]

Bump for visibility.

 

[Zephyrum]

#1 and #4: These values for morale are based on government rank; your rank can be any of them.

 

[Vampiresbane]

#1 and #4: These values for morale are based on government rank; your rank can be any of them.

Oh so Independent Daimyos can become Kingdom and Empire rank? Which then confer the 5% and 10% bonuses respectively?

As long as I can vassalize the Shogun, that'll be what I do then. 5%/10% to morale and infantry combat ability is amazing.

 

[ArzhurG]

You become Shogun by taking Kyoto. Therefore, even if vassalizing the Shogun doesn't make you the new Shogun (I'm not sure if it does or not), you would become the Shogun as he had Kyoto.

The Shogunate is destroyed if an outsider gets Kyoto, so you could stay an independent daimyo by feeding Kyoto to an outsider.

I am getting this info from the wiki (https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Japan & https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Government#Shogunate)

Oh so Independent Daimyos can become Kingdom and Empire rank? Which then confer the 5% and 10% bonuses respectively?

Yes.

 

[Vampiresbane]

You become Shogun by taking Kyoto. Therefore, even if vassalizing the Shogun doesn't make you the new Shogun (I'm not sure if it does or not), you would become the Shogun as he had Kyoto.

The Shogunate is destroyed if an outsider gets Kyoto, so you could stay an independent daimyo by feeding Kyoto to an outsider.

I am getting this info from the wiki (https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Japan & https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Government#Shogunate)


Yes.

That's the question though, if I just vassalize the Shogun in Kyoto without myself holding Kyoto, do I stay an independent Daimyo and he stays Shogun? A follow-up question would then be, do his remaining Daimyo's have military access through me if I completely encircle him? If they can't declare independence or or not made independent on my vassalization of him, might be an interesting way to have a "vassal" swarm through the shogun without holding the shogunate yourself.

I have a feeling that his remaining daimyos become independent when I vassalize him though.

I may have to play test it myself if no one knows and then post my findings. I'm right at the spot to attack him and just obliterated my two former large allies, Yamano and Uesugi. I have ~73 Power Projection so life is good right now. My only complaint is I'm slow compared to power gamers; I won't take all of Japan within 25 years. It's going to be more like 55 years-didn't realize that Uesugi had developed their lands so much so I either have to truce break or wait 15 years before I can attack Uesugi to finish him off.

 

[Vampiresbane]

Looks like you can't make the Shogun a vassal or daimyo. When you declare for independence, you can either fully annex him or make him a tributary. He'll stay a tributary as long as you have a truce, but I'm willing to bet as soon as the truce is up, he breaks that. I'll go and try for that and see what happens.

EDIT: Actually nvm. If you declare for independence, get it, and then attack a second time, you can make Ashikaga a vassal.

 

[PhoenixG]

1. What government rank are Independent Daimyos?
2. If I vassalize and integrate the shogunate, do I then become Shogun?
3. If I vassalize the shogunate, can I stay an independent Daimyo?
4. I'm not sure what the different values signify for morale and combat ability (+2.5/5/10% Morale of armies). What makes the values change in-game?

1. at start it's the same as your current rank. Able to upgrade to empire. Empire ranked Independent Daimyo gives te same boni as normal Daimyo
2. Yes you will, since you'll own Kyoto.
3. Yes you will
4. Higher morale means you deal more morale damage and you'll be able to fight longer. The down side is while you'll drag the battle longer you'll also lose more men. Higher combat ability means that type of units kills more units.

Also note in the first war against the shogun (your independence war) you can't vassalize the Shogun. Also he'll stay shogun, since he owns Kyoto.