Cultures?

[unmerged(2567)]

This may have been asked, but...

I was just curious about how cultures are going to be handled here. They weren't in HoI but if you're going to have nationalism...well...my god, you kinda need them.

I don't know that religions will be necessary...and yet...well, between Serbs and Croats perhaps, but they could likely be simulated with unique national identities.

Also...what about the crazy offshoot cultures, like the American and Canadian? Would there be separate northern American and southern American - within the US? And then Britain's other dominions...or will they all be anglosaxon?

 

[Mr.Bigglesworth]

I think it would be beneficial to have an American North and American South (or 'Yankee' and 'Dixie') cultures, because there will be a need to figure out which states will secede before the Civil War if there is any abnormal expansion for the US. Unless they are just going to make the same states secede every time, which is boring. Cuba needs to secede with the south!

 

[crazy canuck]

This all ties in with the other threads dealing the spheres of influence and how the game is going to simulate rebellions, 1848 etc.

As I think has been mentioned in those other threads, culture would be a nice way of handling this. Not the general cultures found in EUII but fairly specific regional cultures so that there is tension created when the central government has a different culture requiring the ruling central power to have to dedicate troops and other resources to keep the peace.

This would have the added benefit of reducing chance of world domination or at the very least make it an extrodinary feat worthy of praise.

 

[irishpony]

i was under the impression that groups of people would be individauly with there own culture. like in new york three group one irish one italian and one anglosaxon. thay would all be seperate

 

[Killerjes]

Originally posted by irishpony
i was under the impression that groups of people would be individauly with there own culture. like in new york three group one irish one italian and one anglosaxon. thay would all be seperate

It's been said (from Paradox) that ethnicity will play a role, this will hopefully also be within each province, this could be instrumental in many of the conflicts and tensions around the world!

 

[unmerged(2567)]

Originally posted by irishpony
i was under the impression that groups of people would be individauly with there own culture. like in new york three group one irish one italian and one anglosaxon. thay would all be seperate

My hope would be that there's a Yank culture separate from the anglosaxon. Nationally, I don't think that a New Yorker has much identity with a Briton.

Adam

 

[unmerged(15764)]

there will be ethincism in the game so maybe each population man will have its own background etc?

 

[Tim O]

Will immigrant culture slowly assimilate? Would an Irish population unit in New York eventually turn into a Yankee unit, and if it immigrated to Charleston would it turn into a Dixie unit?

 

[unmerged(15764)]

YESYES! This is what i mean slowly over time the populations will equaize! hope this will happen it would be GRRRRREAT! (tony the tiger lol) and very realistic imo!

 

[unmerged(10128)]

Originally posted by Mr.Bigglesworth
I think it would be beneficial to have an American North and American South (or 'Yankee' and 'Dixie') cultures, because there will be a need to figure out which states will secede before the Civil War if there is any abnormal expansion for the US. Unless they are just going to make the same states secede every time, which is boring. Cuba needs to secede with the south!

if cultures are going to be divided like that, then complexities should definitely be developed to deal with it. firstly, if we are going to differentiate offshoot cultures or subcultures or local affilations, the effect of these differences certainly should not be the same as the -30% penalty on income in EU2. i cant see how an American north government ruling the American south could lose 30% its income there permanently. A milder penalty should be imposed, something like 1% revolt risk or 5% income penalty.

Secondly, if we are going to differentiate cultures like that, we will be forced to also recognise the degree of difference between cultures (whereas it's not necessary in EU2). there is huge difference between an American north government ruling the american south and an american north govenrment ruling the UK and an american north government ruling Mexico. in the first case the penalty and difficultly imposed for players should be much less then the 2nd case and the 2nd case much less than the 3rd case. Ethnicity can only partially take care of this difference in penalties.

perhaps it's a good idea to have main cultures and sub cultures beneath them and then even more levels could be created beneath. difference in main culture imposes the most challenge, difference in subculture less, etc.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Really I think a "yankee" and "dixie" culture is cutting it too fine.

Don't you think someone from, say, Pennsylvania, is as different from someone from Maine, as our Pennsylvanian is from someone from Virginia? Or people from Texas? Never mind the divisions in English society itself at this time.

Probably sticking with more well accepted cultures (ones that people would have identified themselves with at the time) is the way to go.

 

[unmerged(2695)]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
Really I think a "yankee" and "dixie" culture is cutting it too fine.

Don't you think someone from, say, Pennsylvania, is as different from someone from Maine, as our Pennsylvanian is from someone from Virginia? Or people from Texas? Never mind the divisions in English society itself at this time.

Probably sticking with more well accepted cultures (ones that people would have identified themselves with at the time) is the way to go.

English North American culture bifurcated into "American" and "Canadian" in the 19th Century.

A significant section in the American South prior to the War of Secession/Rebellion belived themselves to be different from those of the North. What is clear is that a "Dixie" culture should emerge if the South is victories in a possible ACW.

Don't confuse territorial culture with class. The 19th century was the age of the conscious creation of a "British" identity base don unionism and imperialism that was a huge success in Great Britain and a dismal failure zmong the Irish Catholics

 

[Habbaku]

Originally posted by Riso
The whole damn south is a cesspool of rightwing republicans(aka the religious fuckwits).

You must know of a different South than I do. Are you talking about the South that elected two Democratic Preisdents (from Georgia, then Arkansas), or the South that's been voting Democrat religiously since the Civil War, until not too recently?

 

[N Katsyev]

Originally posted by Habbaku
You must know of a different South than I do. Are you talking about the South that elected two Democratic Preisdents (from Georgia, then Arkansas), or the South that's been voting Democrat religiously since the Civil War, until not too recently?

And the south that was pretty much the birthplace of the democratic party... However, it does seem there have been a couple too many republicans hanging around down here in recent years. I suppose its just another sign its time to skip country, hopefully not much more than a year left.

And yes, being born and raised in Maine, i'd say i'm very much culturally different from those around me in Charleston. Better educated for one...

So on topic, there should probably be a few US cultures, maybe something along the lines of:

New Englander - Obvious here, peoples from New England, the chosen culture.
Atlantic Statesman - One from places such as New York, possibly down to Virginia, including Penn state as well.
Carolinian - North/South Carolina, Georgia, Florida
Deep Southerner - Alabama, Mississippi, etc.
Texan - ...Yeah

etc.

Couldn't forget peoples like the "french" of Louisianna or the Africans however.

 

[Habbaku]

Originally posted by N Katsyev
And the south that was pretty much the birthplace of the democratic party... However, it does seem there have been a couple too many republicans hanging around down here in recent years. I suppose its just another sign its time to skip country, hopefully not much more than a year left.

And yes, being born and raised in Maine, i'd say i'm very much culturally different from those around me in Charleston. Better educated for one...

Oh, give me a break. If you feel that you should leave the country because of our president rather than vote through the system, you're no better than those you dislike. If you feel Republicans are a problem in the country, I advise you to look up a chapter of American history titled "Clinton" for someone who's really responsible.

And, believe me, I've met plenty of people from "up North" and they're not automatically smarter--usually just convinced they are.

 

[unmerged(15764)]

alright lets get back on topic not start a flame war please?

 

[Habbaku]

*nod* Good idea...Got a bit worked up, there.

Anyhoo, do you think we can expect that the slaves in the South to be properly represented, even if only as laborer civilians? Perhaps with a higher chance of rebellion as the ACW goes on?

 

[unmerged(15764)]

If they are in they will probably be represented like that. Maybe they could be compared to underpayed workers in extremely poor living/working conditions etc. depends on how deep the game will go etc... man i want this game now

 

[N Katsyev]

Originally posted by Habbaku
Oh, give me a break. If you feel that you should leave the country because of our president rather than vote through the system, you're no better than those you dislike. If you feel Republicans are a problem in the country, I advise you to look up a chapter of American history titled "Clinton" for someone who's really responsible.

This was not my point, and hardly on topic here. I sent you a pm concerning it.

And, believe me, I've met plenty of people from "up North" and they're not automatically smarter--usually just convinced they are.

Maybe egoism is a part of the New England culture? Seriously though, I never said I or anyone else from the north was smarter. I personally believe however the education system in South Carolina could use improvement, and there are i'm sure thousands and thousands of South Carolinians that agree with me, not to mention the handful I know of. Either way, again, hardly on topic here, I made a failed attempt at humour.

Anywho, I think it will be quite necessary to have multiple cultures within a province. This could bring about interesting issues of "catering to the majority" and the like. My rather poor and undeveloped view of Victoria so far envisions provinces with x units of population who then form various social and economic classes. Each of these units of population will have a specific culture. The only problem I see of this system right off, is when converting these units of population into military units, how do we prevent people from carrying on with a form of genocide in gathering all the "undesirable" population units and tossing them onto the front line.

 

[Avernite]

Originally posted by N Katsyev
The only problem I see of this system right off, is when converting these units of population into military units, how do we prevent people from carrying on with a form of genocide in gathering all the "undesirable" population units and tossing them onto the front line. [/B]

But that's exactly what any nation would do! I don't see that as a problem.