well for every quebec that the brits failed to assimilate there is an acadia where the brits practically ethnically clensed the french and brought in the brit colonists, or louisiana and the former spanish colonies of the USA lost alot of their spanishness and became american. I know i know, florida texas and california have alot of hispanics, but thats more a result of recent immigration. The hispanics that were there when the americans took over that territory are pretty assimilated into american culture.
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Acadia is a specific example of ethnic cleansing, not assimilation.
As for Louisiana and Florida those areas were very lightly populated by the French and Spanish. That kind of culture change is already in the game - when a city's population is below 600 an additional settler will change the religion and culture.
And there are far too many examples of people not being assimilated despite generations of rule: the Dutch, the Irish, the Basques, the Ukrainians, the Finns, just about everyone under the Austrians and the Ottomans (Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats, Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes).
And I haven't even left Europe...
BarristerBoy
As for Louisiana and Florida those areas were very lightly populated by the French and Spanish. That kind of culture change is already in the game - when a city's population is below 600 an additional settler will change the religion and culture.
And there are far too many examples of people not being assimilated despite generations of rule: the Dutch, the Irish, the Basques, the Ukrainians, the Finns, just about everyone under the Austrians and the Ottomans (Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats, Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes).
And I haven't even left Europe...
BarristerBoy
I didn't mean that occupying them for a long time alone should result in assimilation. I meant that it would take a long time, but there also has to be an effort made by the player, either through a DP slider or whatever...
You can occupy a foreign culture province for centuries and not get them to assimilate. However, if you take an active role in suppresing their customs and forcing their children to learn your language and your customs instead, then with each passing generation the people of that province will begin to lose more and more of their cultural identity.
The reason the Ottomans and others did not succeed in assimilating other cultures, is because they didn't make any significant efforts to suppress the cultures of the peoples they conquered.
You can occupy a foreign culture province for centuries and not get them to assimilate. However, if you take an active role in suppresing their customs and forcing their children to learn your language and your customs instead, then with each passing generation the people of that province will begin to lose more and more of their cultural identity.
The reason the Ottomans and others did not succeed in assimilating other cultures, is because they didn't make any significant efforts to suppress the cultures of the peoples they conquered.
Actually, it's the opposite. Most of the assimilations were peaceful ones, suppressing other cultures doesn't make them vanish, at least no example comes to my mind.
Honestly I can't think of almost any successful, peaceful assimilations in history. The only times that cultures have been changed were by either forceably relocating people, or by out-and-out genocide.
BarristerBoy
If you mean that no wars are fought, then yes most assimilations are peaceful. But what I was refering to if a low level war that goes on behind the scenes that isnt really apparent to outside countries. In Wales, children were forbidden to speak Welsh and instead were taught English. And now today almost everyone in Wales speaks English instead of Welsh.
This sort of cultural suppression doesn't exist in Wales today, and as a result some cultural traits are reappearing.
Ireland is another good example. At the time Ireland gained independence, very few people spoke the native language of Gaelic. but then Gaelic was made the official language of the country, and was taught in schools to children. And since then it has a made a comeback big time, although English is still probably more common... though I don't know much about it really.
The Swedes had a very effective swedenisation campaign in the Skaane region in Sweden. They moved out some of the inhabitants and moved in people from other regions, changed all education to Swedish, built a university in the area to prevent the elite from getting education in the their old country (Denmark) and so on.
That sounds like some rather active suppression of the local Danish culture - forceably moving people, only allowing eductaion in Swedish.
Sweden didn't do so well in modern Finland, did they?
BarristerBoy
Okay, since i started it...
Lithuanian and Ruthenian nobility completly turned into Polish. Same with part of lower social groups.
Most of Pomeranian, Prussian and Silesian Poles (well, Slavs), into Germans.
Polish peasantry emigrating into Ukraine embraced local culture and turned into Ukrainian.
Sudeten Czechs into Germans.
Moravians into Czechs, i suppose.
Those are examples i know the best. Since it's 5 am here, i can't think of more now
Though it might be useful if we define first which is peaceful and which is not. For example, what about Welsh?
So, what about those non-peaceful examples?
EDIT/Did i said it's 5 am here? I didn't noticed the second page...
This problem can be partly addressed by setting up a random event to change the culture of a random province to the state culture. (Incidentally you can use such an event to change the culture of a province in another country!)
I have not been able to trigger a province culture change event to the acquisition of a new province. I have not been able to trigger an add state culture trigger to the acquisition of a province with a different culture (anyway I have no idea how I might link the added state culture to the culture of the newly acquired province).
Perhaps someone else knows how to do this?
I have not been able to trigger a province culture change event to the acquisition of a new province. I have not been able to trigger an add state culture trigger to the acquisition of a province with a different culture (anyway I have no idea how I might link the added state culture to the culture of the newly acquired province).
Perhaps someone else knows how to do this?
Actually the real problem that I see with this is that you can only change religion and culture in colonies below 700. It dosn't really make sense that you can't change these if you send colonists above that number. For example: say Sweden captures Kola from Russia. Kola's population is 1000 at the time. If Sweden decides to send 1100 colonists to Kola shouldn't the religion and culture change since they are now the dominant population? Other than that I can live with no cultural changes in the game. other than historical or if someone comes up with a reasonable slider option that makes sense.
Cheers
Finland was a complete other matter. See, Denmark was the enemy of old - since the age of Beowulf at least - and the inhabitants of Skåne were of course Danish. These were not especially friendly towards their Swedish oppressors (of natural and justified causes...), so the Swedes were of the opinion that if Skåne ever would be under control, those things had to be done.
Now, as said, Finland was a complete other thing. Finland was being considered as a natural part of the country - while modern day Sweden was the Western "rikshalva" (lit. "half-realm") Finland was the Eastern. It was never considered "occupied territory", as for example Skåneland, Jämtland or Estonia were. Shortly, a as natural part of the country as Småland or Västergötland.
I can. During the Viking Age Scandinavians created colonize in many different areas, were they later wre peacefully assimilated. Such areas are: the British Isles (mainly in the Danelaw), Normandy, most of the Baltic coast and modern day Russia.
Following up on Your logic BiB, Habsburgs should not aquire Hungarian culture in the game in the first place , as they (quoting You) "were nowhere near getting" Hungarian culutre even though they held those lands for ages either.
Anyhow, my point is that there should indeed be some kind of mechanism worked out that should allow us players, for gaining other cultures. This could be somehow linked to the DP settings, and to the fact whether You own those particular provinces for a sufficiently long period or not. On the other hand, You should also be able to lose same of the cultures You have previously acquired.
My 2 cents
English is much more common in Ireland than Irish. Those who speak Irish as a first language (everyone learns it in school) are in a small minority, scattered around the western coast. This shows how cultural imposition (in this case of an idealised language of independence) can fail through lack of interest among the people - even those 'on your own side'.
Irish speakers in Ireland have their own radio and TV stations, but as one comic remarked "The people at Telefis na Gaelige are getting paranoid. They think people are watching them."
Zagloba
Originally posted by Attila the Hun
Following up on Your logic BiB, Habsburgs should not aquire Hungarian culture in the game in the first place , as they (quoting You) "were nowhere near getting" Hungarian culutre even though they held those lands for ages either.
Anyhow, my point is that there should indeed be some kind of mechanism worked out that should allow us players, for gaining other cultures. This could be somehow linked to the DP settings, and to the fact whether You own those particular provinces for a sufficiently long period or not. On the other hand, You should also be able to lose same of the cultures You have previously acquired.
My 2 cents
I am of the opinion cultures should be handed out even less than now
Originally posted by BiB
I am of the opinion cultures should be handed out even less than now
There is one particular country in which case I absolutely share Your view on this.
