Cultures, shields and religion..

[KaRei]

Sending missionaries abroad - extraction for Vote Thread
This is an extraction of ideas from the current discussion thread. These ideas are from various people from the thread. I only merge them into one post.

It would be possible to send missionaries into another countries, friendly or not. They will still work as before - converting religion in province to state religion of that country which sent them. By this way you will be able to keep the ally strong, make problems to enemies, or prepare the land for future takeover.

If you send missionary to country with same religion as you have, your relations increase.
If you send missionary to country with different religion, your relations decrease and the country could get CB against you.

 

[KaRei]

Religious tolerance policy - extraction for Vote Thread
This is an extraction of ideas from the current discussion thread. These ideas are from various people from the thread. I only merge them into one post.

You would be able to move religion sliders only by limited distance per time. Each change would cost you stab hit.

Religious-revoltrisk of population with some religion will depend on your tolerance of this religion (as in EU2), and also on your tolerance of other religions which this religion "hasn't in love". This means that if you will have protestant and catholic religions in your land for example and you set similar tolerance for both, catholic will not have revoltrisk because you are tolerating them, but on the other hand they will have revolrisk because you are tolerating their "enemies", protestants. Protestants will have revoltrisk, because of your toleration of catholics.

This will make tolerance sliders more importand than they are in Eu2 and it will bring new challenge into game.

 

[KaRei]

Nationality tolerance - extraction for Vote Thread
This is an extraction of ideas from the current discussion thread. These ideas are from various people from the thread. I only merge them into one post.

As there are sliders to set your tolerance for religions, there should be sliders to set your tolerance for nationalities inside your country. Nationalities which are you tolerating would grow faster and their revolrisk would be smaller. Nationalities that you aren't tolerating would have tendences to revolt, and possibly tendences to liberate. Also their grow would be smaller or could be negative.

 

[KaRei]

Process of assimilation - extraction for Vote Thread
This is an extraction of ideas from the current discussion thread. These ideas are from various people from the thread. I only merge them into one post.

There should be implemented process of assimilation which would change the nationality of province to your state nationality.

In case of multi-cultural provinces the population will slowly change to your state nationality during the time. In case of one-culture provinces (no percentage population) will the province change its nationality after a time to yours.
Assimilation process should take a long time. Nations should have for different nations different difficulty of assimilation. Some would change after 10 years, some would resist for almost two centuries.

 

[joriandrake]

Player defined, newly created(or splintered ,like anglican) faiths.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

There should be a variable, not fixed, tax penalty for provinces whose majority is of a non-state religion. It might even be possible for it to be higher. (As in the case of the Ottomans; they attempted to encourage conversion by imposing higher tax rates on non-believers.) This would represent the fact that in some cases, religious minorities existed rather harmoniously with their overlords, or were even a benefit to the economy (like the classic "jewish merchants" in Europe)

 

[unmerged(7470)]

Personally, all this cultural engineering talk leaves me rather cold. It's for perfectionist players who don't want non-state cultures messing up their flawless, homogeneous empires. The AI won't be able to handle it, of course, so it'll essentially be an exploit.

 

[Rorschach]

What I would like to see is a less simplified cultural model. Not like now where every culture is exactly as different from each other, as any other culture. German and Dutch are as different as German and Inca.

One idea is a two- or three level cultural hierarchy. German and dutch are both germanic, iberian and italian are romanic, all of them are european.

 

[Registered]

What I would like to see is a less simplified cultural model. Not like now where every culture is exactly as different from each other, as any other culture. German and Dutch are as different as German and Inca.

One idea is a two- or three level cultural hierarchy. German and dutch are both germanic, iberian and italian are romanic, all of them are european.

Good idea, though it will no doubt lead to a lot of very nasty flamewars.
For religion there should be something similar.

 

[SonofWinter]

How about an easier way of doing it. You have to send 10 colonists to convert a culture. They cost more say 3 times more and it takes 5 years for a colonist to arrive. In 50 years you can have your own culture as the province culture. It will cost you about 150 gold per colonist and after 50 years, youv'e spent about 1500 gold, not a cheap proposition either.

 

[TheEvilForce]

As some has said before, I suggest, that a Pop-System similar to Victoria could be an good start. But I think it shouldn't be handeled like in Victoria when assigning Pops to factories or mines. Therefor I would suggest to let every Pop produce Working-Points (WP) for his specific work, eg. a 50.000 Pop of Hungarian Clerks would produce 50 Working-Points (Clerks), which could be distributed among the factories etc. This would also make it easier to simulate minorities. For example a 50.000 Pop of Turkish Clerks in the same province could work with an efficiency of just 80%, which makes 40 Working-Points to distribute.

So now I am coming to the point of assimilating minorities. To simulate this, you could let minorities grow slower. For example our Hungarians grow with 0.9% per year, the turkish only with 0.8%. The second part is to let them Turkish convert to Hungarian. You could say, that for each Hungarian 0.01 Turkish are converting. So if you take this into account, it means that 500 Turkish would be converted to Hungarian each year. So over the time, the number of Hungarians would grow more like the Turkish one, but Turkish will take a long time to be fully assimilated, because at the beginning it was 50% both.

1st Year : 50000 Hungarians, 50000 Turkish (50%/50%)
2nd Year : 50950 Hungarians, 49900 Turkish (50,5%/49,5%)
3rd Year : 51909 Hungarians, 49799 Turkish (51%/49%)
etc.

 

[SonofWinter]

With your idea, it takes 70 years to zero out the other culture, but it doesn't cost anything. I am not sure that something for nothing would last very long.

 

[KaRei]

If it would take 70 years it would mean, that each child borned in Hungary will be hungarian. I don't think that assimilation should go so quickly. It takes centuries to assimilate whole population. But the assimilation should be implemented.

 

[Desertfox]

Aside from core/non-core provinces there should be claims to a province. Claims don`t make it a core for revolt risk etc but count as a casus belli.

Aside from cores and claims gotten from events, you can also increase your claim on it by simply occupying it for a while. Or discovering it.

For example: the English were quite annoyed about the Dutch colonisation of North America because they did it in areas the English discovered first.

The cultural conversion should be linked to core/claim/non-core status of a province. If you occupy a province for a century you get a claim on it.
If you occupy a province with a claim on it for a century you get a core on it.
If you have a province with a core on it and it is state-religion and have a state-cultured core province next to it, the province will turn to your culture after a century. Historically this happened with southern Belgium and the area around Dunkirque in Northern France which are effectively French culture now but used to be Dutch speaking. What if Netherlands wrestled those areas from France/Spain/England in the 16th century? They`d still be Dutch. Same for Anatolia (Turkey) with Greek culture, Spain with Arabic culture and southern Russia with Mongol culture. Many events that handle such culture conversion can be replaced by rules that allow culture, core and claim conversion over time depending on who rules.

Historical culture development can be steered by carefully placing cores and claims in the starting setup.

You could also lose claims and cores over time if the provinces stay in the hands of other powers.

 

[TheEvilForce]

If you tweak the conversion-factor you could easily slow down the conversion speed, e.g. you set it to 0.005 or even 0.0025 it would take much longer. Furthermore you could modify this because of your slider-settings for tolerance. So if you got a high tolerance they would convert slower, but revoltrisk would be slower, too.
And why does it have to cost anything to convert people? This would mean, that if you are rich, you can convert easily within a short timespan. I don't think this is what I want...

 

[Tamerlan]

Getting a new culture

I would like to be able to get a different culture. This could depend on the proportion of the said province in my empire and the level of centralization, open-mindedness of the governement.

The lower the centralization, the less territories of that culture you would need to get it.

The higher the openmindedness, the bigger the odd to get another culture per year.

One could have 1% chance per year to get another culture if 50% of your country is of the said culture (fully centralized) and 25% of your country if fully decentralized.

This would be very cool for Austria and the Ottomans, maybe China so that they get those cultures randomly by being decentralised instead of starting with all those cultures (which is not gamey at all).

Provincial culture change

Ideally province culture could also change like tech spread in CK. This happened in Belgium and Britanny where French advanced over local languages. This also happened in Celtic parts of Britain which were subdued by some English dialects. I would assume the level of centralization of the originating country plus the amount of trade towards the province could be taken into account (same way as tech spread as in CK).

Cores : International recognition of ancient province ownership

For cores, a non-core province could have a 1% chance every year to become a core. This should depend on the BB, since international recognition is important. So a high BB should substantially lower this chance. The culture and religion of the province should also be taken into account. Maybe the freedom slider too ?

Provincial religious conversions

BTW it would be cool that religion conversion would have a spread component like tech spread in CK. And no money for missionaries, having money everywhere makes the game one dimensional. The higher the narrow mindedness the higher the chance of conversion and the higher the revolt risk. This should not take any input from the monarch (except slider policies).

 

[SonofWinter]

If you tweak the conversion-factor you could easily slow down the conversion speed, e.g. you set it to 0.005 or even 0.0025 it would take much longer. Furthermore you could modify this because of your slider-settings for tolerance. So if you got a high tolerance they would convert slower, but revoltrisk would be slower, too.
And why does it have to cost anything to convert people? This would mean, that if you are rich, you can convert easily within a short timespan. I don't think this is what I want...

One, it would not take 70 years to get a province that did not have your culture, so don't make that mistake. I did a calculation with 50% of the population already being of your culture.

Two, if you don't have teachers and schools, guess what. Your backward subjects will never learn your language or your laws or your culture. And yes it did take being rich to change culture of a province, no one wants to be of your culture if you are a poor shmuck, people only want to be like the winners not like the loosers next door, who can't pay their car bill.

 

[joriandrake]

If it would take 70 years it would mean, that each child borned in Hungary will be hungarian. I don't think that assimilation should go so quickly. It takes centuries to assimilate whole population. But the assimilation should be implemented.

This is game, and 70 years is more then enough...and the idea with 'each child borned in Hungary will be hungarian' is great!

 

[unmerged(2456)]

If it would take 70 years it would mean, that each child borned in Hungary will be hungarian. I don't think that assimilation should go so quickly. It takes centuries to assimilate whole population. But the assimilation should be implemented.

Yea and that's big thing...Children wouldn't be all hungarian. Rather than have one population continually drop, the hungarian should just get a weighted average to represent conversions of various indivisuals.

 

[joriandrake]

Yea and that's big thing...Children wouldn't be all hungarian. Rather than have one population continually drop, the hungarian should just get a weighted average to represent conversions of various indivisuals.

We need to make it as it is in SuperPower2