Cultures other than Scandanavian in the Varangian Guard

[es333]

How is Estonian not baltic though? Its been in the baltic region for a long time, I think even before Sweden and all that hot settled.

Estonians and Finns predate Scandinavians and Balts in Northern-Europe.

The region you call "Baltic" was majority Finnic before 500 AD when the Balts started pushing more north.

I mean, out of 6000 years of Finnics being in the "Baltic" region, it was majority Finnic for 4500 years and Balts are newcomers to this region when you look at history.

Estonia is only called a Baltic state of the Soviet occupation, it doesn't mean that it should have anything to do with the Balts in the CK2 time frame.

The interesting thing is, the lingua franca in the Baltic region was Livonian and they are unrepresented in the game, (lumped under Estonians and their areas in Courland and Riga are Baltic in CK2). It was the lingua franca because they lived surrounded by the newcomers and their language quite similar to the Estonians who were the bigger players in the region. The Balts could use Livonian to have negations with other Finnic tribes living North and East of modern-day Latvia.

To sum it up, the Estonians have been in the "Baltic" region for 6000 years while the Balts have been here for 1500-2000 years. So how does that make the Estonians Baltic?

It's like saying that the Saami are Germanic because they have been in the Scandinavian region for quite a while, they are the natives, I hope you understand my logic.

 

[es333]

How is Estonian not baltic though? Its been in the baltic region for a long time, I think even before Sweden and all that hot settled.

Oh and I forgot, Finland was a part of the "Baltic region" from 1917 to the 1950's. It's geopolitics and doesn't influence the thousands of years of history that predate the world wars.

 

[Ciniod]

But if the Baltics started pushing north in 500AD then thats well before the game period isnt it? And I dont see how it really matters, thats just how they are defined in gamefiles. (Btw Estonian myself doing an "Empire of Eestimaa" playtrough. Not really expanding beyond de jure scandinavia, rus, Lithuania and now perm though. And also duchy of Ryazan because its de jure Ruthenia but suomenusko holy site)

 

[es333]

But if the Baltics started pushing north in 500AD then thats well before the game period isnt it? And I dont see how it really matters, thats just how they are defined in gamefiles. (Btw Estonian myself doing an "Empire of Eestimaa" playtrough. Not really expanding beyond de jure scandinavia, rus, Lithuania and now perm though. And also duchy of Ryazan because its de jure Ruthenia but suomenusko holy site)

I mean, Finnics lived for thousands of years (and still live) in the "Baltic" region before anyone started calling it Baltic.

I like how the British Isles are called the British Isles after the Britons who are are the native Celtic inhabitants of the region. Nowadays it's Anglo-Saxon but the term is written in stone. Over here we have the opposite, the native people still live in the region and even have countries in it but the region is called after people who are newcomers to the region when looking at the timeline. Lastly, the term doesn't even make sense geographically. People just saw 4 countries in North-Eastern Europe getting independence from the Russian Empire in 1918 and decided to call all of them Baltic. When 3 of them were occupied, Finland was called what it actually is (and what Estonia is too).

 

[Ciniod]

I mean, Finnics lived for thousands of years (and still live) in the "Baltic" region before anyone started calling it Baltic.

I like how the British Isles are called the British Isles after the Britons who are are the native Celtic inhabitants of the region. Nowadays it's Anglo-Saxon but the term is written in stone. Over here we have the opposite, the native people still live in the region and even have countries in it but the region is called after people who are newcomers to the region when looking at the timeline. Lastly, the term doesn't even make sense geographically. People just saw 4 countries in North-Eastern Europe getting independence from the Russian Empire in 1918 and decided to call all of them Baltic. When 3 of them were occupied, Finland was called what it actually is (and what Estonia is too).

What should estonia be called then?

 

[es333]

What should estonia be called then?

Same as Finland, Estonia's brother nation, Nordic. It's funny how 45 years of Soviet occupation can change the image of an ethnicity that has lived in one place for almost 6000 years. There's a reason why thousands of Danes, Swedes and Finns fought in the Estonian independence war of 1918-1920. Back then we were all brothers because of history, but in 2016 most Northern-Europeans know quite little about Estonia as it was completely erased from their schoolbooks.

Fun fact: Sweden and Denmark had to limit the amount of men they send to Estonia as there were so many volunteers signing up that sending all of them would seem as Sweden and Denmark directly taking part in a war against the USSR. At the same time, Finland sent everyone who wished to go.

I studied Northern-European history but this is getting a bit off-topic and I am on probation, so yeah. This is my last post, going to bed.

 

[Ciniod]

Same as Finland, Estonia's brother nation, Nordic. It's funny how 45 years of Soviet occupation can change the image of an ethnicity that has lived in one place for almost 6000 years. There's a reason why thousands of Danes, Swedes and Finns fought in the Estonian independence war of 1918-1920. Back then we were all brothers because of history, but in 2016 most Northern-Europeans know quite little about Estonia as it was completely erased from their schoolbooks.

Fun fact: Sweden and Denmark had to limit the amount of men they send to Estonia as there were so many volunteers signing up that sending all of them would seem as Sweden and Denmark directly taking part in a war against the USSR. At the same time, Finland sent everyone who wished to go.

I studied Northern-European history but this is getting a bit off-topic and I am on probation, so yeah. This is my last post, going to bed.

Very intresting really, and considering I sas born in estonia I should probably know all this, though I moved to sweden after 1st grade. All I knew was that Estonians and Finns were a big part of the varangian if not even bigger than Norse. Ill have to read up some more. Though I do also know that estonia is trying to get into Scandinavia, like it is in ck2 atleast.

 

[es333]

Very intresting really, and considering I sas born in estonia I should probably know all this, though I moved to sweden after 1st grade. All I knew was that Estonians and Finns were a big part of the varangian if not even bigger than Norse. Ill have to read up some more. Though I do also know that estonia is trying to get into Scandinavia, like it is in ck2 atleast.

Most of Estonia and South-Western Finland have been in the same culture sphere/archaeological area etc. with Scandinavia since the Nordic Bronze age, at that time people living on both sides of the Baltic sea probably became bilingual.

Historically Estonia has a lot more similarities and contacts with Scandinavia than Finland does. In modern days, there are only 2 ethnic groups which Estonians feel close to, Finnics (mostly Finns as the ones in Russia are practically died out) and Scandinavians. Both groups are in the same culture sphere though.

Talking about geography, the closest European capital to Stockholm is Tallinn. I like to put that into quizzes as people always get it wrong, haha.

 

[Drake_Hound]

It is tied to norse culture ! any norse no matter how far away even in india. will get a chance to get a event to let the son join the varangian guard.

To alter it you need to go to the events and mod that. also to get the varangian guard trait to stick. you have to mod that too in the traits section