Cultures in the game that currently have no associated country?

[Pellucid]

I've been playing as Kurland a lot lately and it got me thinking about how Estonian and Latvian don't have any country tags associated with them (Estonian patriot rebels appear to return to their native...nowhere!). The tags I know of that currently have no associated country are:

Sami
Karelian
Estonian
Latvian

I mostly play Europe so I don't know if there are any floating around in ROTW. It seems like these cultures ought to have at least one tag; even though they never had a country anywhere in the game's timeframe, that doesn't mean they couldn't have. Out of curiosity, what would you guys name countries for these cultures? I'm not very familiar with ancient Baltic cultures so I have no idea if there are any kingdoms or empires that these people may have looked back on (mythical or real) and am curious.

 

[myrsl0ken]

The sami country could definitely be Sápmi, as that's what the area is called both in the northern sami dialect and commonly in other languages. It would be so awesome to kick it out of Sweden and tag-switch!

 

[ponasozis]

as local from baltic
there is no country for estonia or latvia because there never existed one till russian empire din t lost its territories because of civil war
only different tribes lived in baltic till teutonic and livonian orders showed up and conquered prussian,latvian tribes leaving only lithuanian tribes
and then it led to lithuania unifying becoming feudal monarchy having first and only lithuanian king then expansion to east and conquering of slavic and russian lands and then friendship with poland and then big battle of tannenberg and then defeat of teutonic and livonian order and then lublin union and then commonwealth and then you know the rest i think
now the estonians were kinda never mentioned directly even by tacitus so their possible tribes or kingdoms never even made it to the history books as far as we know they were first mentioned when danish and livonian order conquered them



here is map of baltic tribes 1200 ad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latgalians#mediaviewer/File:Baltic_Tribes_c_1200.svg

 

[myrsl0ken]

But the point is, what would have been created if the livonian order had crumbled from internal strugle? Think alternative history!

 

[ponasozis]

well probably Latgalian country for latvia if it happened not too late
oh actually scratch that there did exist estonian country by name of Virumaa with five clans divided it kilikunda,Maum, Laemund,Revele,Alentagh (Gotta say those names are bizzare even for local balt sounds like some elven language from lotr)

 

[Santoes]

But the point is, what would have been created if the livonian order had crumbled from internal strugle? Think alternative history!

Kurland?

 

[beklanis]

But the point is, what would have been created if the livonian order had crumbled from internal strugle? Think alternative history!

Livonia couldnt survive. Teutonics always hoped to annex Livonia, as Denmark (Holstein knights were among the first to invade Balts), Sweden, Muscowy. Lithuanian expansion to the sount east were mostly diplomatic and didnt require much bloodshed so they maintained most of their troops intact. At that time Livonia had NO chance to do anything at all, besides Pope and everyone else were worried about Ottomans and securing power to nobles.

 

[SignedName]

Why not just call it Estonia?

 

[myrsl0ken]

Estonia would work, but it sounds a bit too modern to pop out 1444. Since this is purely for RP, it has to feel right.

 

[Arag]

Highland Maya does not have any country while it is the sole culture in Kiche, which is Yucatec.

The wiki has a list of cultures and their associated countries -> http://www.eu4wiki.com/Culture

 

[Chlodio]

Estonia would work, but it sounds a bit too modern to pop out 1444. Since this is purely for RP, it has to feel right.

Why? Denmark and Sweden had Estonia as duchy and Danish Duchy of Estonia had no land connection, thus it had to have some-much autonomy and because it existed as duchy it doesn't sound too modern.

 

[frolix42]

With Art of War there are a lot of new tags in eastern europe. A lot of them for countries that hadn't existed since the 1200s. I had a situation where rebels shattered the Commonwealth and all their regions became independent, except for the former Livonian Order's land because Livonian cores had disappeared, which was very awkward. I feel that Estonia and Latvia probably do deserve cores on land that is their primary culture. Frankly I think that every unique culture deserves a primary nation for nationalists to defect to.

 

[olm]

Estonia and Livonia could easily be added as tags without sounding horribly out of timeline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Estonia_(1561–1721)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Estonia#Duchy_of_Estonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Livonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Livonia

Obviously whole "nationalist" rebels thing isn't very historical, but then Belarussians, Finns, Uralics and even Old-Prussians have tags, there isn't much reason for not adding them for Estonians and Latvians too.

 

[jz79]

Seconded. Also, the Old Prussian tag should be removed, or moved south. You could rename the tag Curonian, but I think just replacing it with Latvian and making Latvian the culture of Curonia is more elegant. Also, from what I understand Old Prussian and Curonian were mostly gone by the game's time frame.

 

[Vedinu]

Sami country could be called Lapland

 

[TheBoozehammer]

All cultures should have a tag, even if just so they can revolt.

 

[nalfz]

Slovene
wait a minute I forgot slovenes aren't real never mind

 

[Pilot00]

Given the formation of Iraq in this time frame things such as Estonia and Latvia are not out of place.

Karelia was a kingdom or something like that right?

 

[Kansai-kun]

Slovene
wait a minute I forgot slovenes aren't real never mind

I'm all for adding small cultures, but only if they get rid of cultural conversion - otherwise Austria would just wipe them off the map within a few years.

 

[nalfz]

I'm all for adding small cultures, but only if they get rid of cultural conversion - otherwise Austria would just wipe them off the map within a few years.

Two words: sami, karelian