Culture issues with CK3

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Vias

Second Lieutenant
60 Badges
Jun 22, 2013
165
302
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
So guys, I saw there is a lot of people who has issue with CK3 cultures, what is in, what isn't in the game and where some cultures are/should be. So, why not make a single thread where we express our opinions clearly so that maybe Devs can see it and have an idea without have to browse a lot of threads whom get inevitably buried after some hours/days? Only, let's make it civil, no fighting, no salty posting. Let's only state what we think should get reviewed, if you can post some evidence, it's ok, but don't fight! I could edit OP post to add the issue.

1589688513526.jpg
RvVx2na.jpg
6---kultur-2.jpg
001.png
002.png
003.png
004.png
CKIII Dev Diary #27 - Cultures & Cultural Innovations

Issues:
  • Cisalpine culture in Northern Italy should be split into Cisalpine and Venetian, it makes no sense to unite them (also see Puking Panda's, .Me's, Karlingid's and mine posts); Lombard shouldn't be in the German culture group.
  • French, Occitan and Ango-Saxon culture blog opposed to more granular cultures elsewhere: could add Arpitan, Guascon culture in France (see also Darkath's thread); split Ango-Saxon split anglo-saxon (angles, saxons and jutes?, with Angosaxon as a melting pot?)
  • Occitan culture better named Lemosin? (see Ezumiyr's post);
  • Catalan and Occitan in the same culture group;
  • Cornish not majoriti in Devon
  • More pictish scotland?
  • Better rename Visigothic to Ibero-Romance in Iberia? Splitting Iberia blob into Galician, Asturian/Leonese, Castillan, Aragonese, Catalan, Mozarabic, Basques? they are already splitted in 1066 culture map. There is not Mozarabic culture (see Rogan de Auria's post)
  • Rus' culture named improperly (Russian); also see kikispoke111's thread);
  • No Slovenian/Carinthian culture in Istria;
  • No Dalmatian culture in Dalmatia; should be in Istria too;
  • No Romanic African culture in Africa (maybe add Christian Berbers too?);
  • Flanders should be Dutch (not French), also Flemish is an anachronism (should be only Dutch), north-eastern of modern Netherlands should be Saxon;
  • Dutch and Franconian/Saxon should be in the same culture group;
  • No Albanian cuture (see treb's and cybrxkhan's posts)
  • No caucasian Albanian/Udi culture;
  • No Assyrian culture;
  • No Circassian culture in Causasus; also see mahidevran's post;
  • No Caucasian Avars;
  • Regarding Caucasus: could use the map in Slime99's post for reference for 1066 start date cultures in the area;
  • The spread of Romanian culture is wrong (should not be in Serbia);
  • Bulgarian culture (should be Bulgar and not Bulgarian);
  • Bosniac culture too early?
  • No Basques in Aquitanie;
  • Arabia should be divided in "North" (Adnanites) and "South" Arabians (South Semetic/South Arabian/Soqotri/Qahtanite) (see also dark-mysterio's thread);
  • Northern Curonian coast was inhabited by Livonians not Balts in both start dates.
  • Latgalian should not be the culture of the whole of Latvia at either start date (could simply rename it "Latvian");
  • There shouldn't be any Lombards culture at start date;
  • No Rhaeto-Romance culture;
  • No Chrimea Goths;
  • A lot of issues with Vepsian, Sami, Finnish, Mari and Chuvash cultures (see Slime99's, Karlingid's, Aquamancer's posts);
  • No Assyrian (they were not Kurds); also see Butterworth's post for Kurds issues;
  • Taijik should be called Khorasani, see also elvain's post or mudcrabmerchant's post about merging Taijik with Persian;
  • There should be Aramean culture in the Levant, particularly in Syria, with a large christian population until the Crusades;
  • Levantine culture as melting pot between Arabic culture and Aramean?
  • There should be some Jewish or Samaritan area in the Levant;
  • Distinsion between Swabian and Bavarian culture in 867 anachronistic (better united as Suebi/Alemannic); (see this and this Karlingid's posts);
  • No Coptic culture;
  • Alan culture;
  • Coastline from South-Western Estonia to Western coasts of Curonia inhabited by Livonians. Latgals did not have access to the sea;
  • Vlach culture issues in this SoKraTes1's thread and Рймлјан's post;
  • Wrong Avar culture distribution in 867 start date, should be less present in the area (see SoKraTes1's post for map and more info)
  • Too much Hungarian in 1066 (displace Rusyns in Zarpatia and Slovaks); also see Graf Radetzky's and Rhipeen's posts;
  • Should add Szekely culture in Hungary (see Рймлја's post);
  • in 867 e 1066 startdates southern Tarim Basin should be Khotanese/Saka (or Thocharian in 867 and Uyghur in 1066?), not Sogdian;
  • Split Greek culture megablob?
  • No Khitan culture in 1066 map;
  • Ostyak outdated exonym, it's better Khanty;
  • South Asia issues (see Yogh's and Slime 99's posts);
  • There should be no Khitan in the map (it was only an outpost), better just Mongols;
  • No Romani culture (see this Graf Radetzky's thread for suggestion and namelist);
  • Issues with Georgia (see Reavici's post);
  • Better to use "Tuva" or "Tuvan" rather than Uriankhai (see also mahidevran's post);
  • Samogitia should be part of Lithuania, and there should be a Baltic culture county in the area inhabited by Eastern Galindians (see also Divirix's thread containing a lot of suggestions about Baltic area and much more);
  • Add event to colonize saxon in Transilvania if there is a Kingdom of Hungry, see SoKraTes1's post; the same event could be done also in Silesia, Brandenburg, Pomerania and Mecklenburg ;
  • There should be no Polabian culture in southern Pomerania, in XII century Pomerania expanted in Lutici loands taking Demmin and Wolast;
  • Assamese should be named Kamrupi? (see AliasRy's post for more info);
  • There should be more tribal counties in India, India's cultures should be more balkanized too (also see Slime99's post)
  • No Iceland culture
  • Split Ethiopian into Tigrayan and Amharic, and add Agew culture in southern Ethiopia (see mudcrabmerchant's post)
Replies from the devs:

Wolkeg:
  • "We currently don't have Coptic in, but that's not to say it's been axed forever"
  • No Anglo-Saxon split for launch;
  • "We don't have anything for splitting Cisalpine at the moment, I'm afraid, but that's not necessarily a hard stance."
  • About minority cultures/religion: "Lovely concept, sadly nothing we'll have for release." and later "Nothing for release, more than that, I can't say!"
  • "No Silesian melting pot culture at the moment, but never say never!"
  • No Romani culture for lauch;
  • "Dutch is in the Central Germanic culture group, I'm afraid. Not that it didn't have close links to the Scandinavian cultures, just not as close as to Franconian (and, to a much lesser extent, sorta-Saxon). Culture is also not always based on language, even if the judgement is a bit arbitrary and that's the usual baseline: see the Vlachs chumming it up with the South Slavs despite speaking Romance languages which would very determinedly not be mutually-intelligible with Bulgarians, Serbians, and so on. "
  • "French will just be Occitan and French at release. :) A little unfair, I know, but polishing the culture map is one of those tasks that we can keep going at on and on and on forever. Aaaaaaaand, to be honest, probably will. So, as with most other culture fractalising suggestions so far, never say never! "
  • "On Brabant & Flanders: I'll have a discussion with some people internally and see if we've got a specific reason for why they are the way they are. ;) Won't promise you anything back, but if it's an oversight, we'll look into it!"
  • Outremer is a melting pot;
  • "Norse does not currently have any new melting pots"
  • Sicilian is a melting pot that take 3,4 or 5 cultures to form;
  • Russian will not change for release, but also "I suspect Russian culture may be an area we re-visit after launch, though I can't promise anything there. For the moment, Russian is just Russian."
  • As for Frisian/Dutch: " I've heard convincing arguments for Frisians, Dutch, and Lower Franconians. YMMV, but personally I feel that Dutch is the best fit (and by that I mean wrong, but least-wrong in most-areas, which seems to be all we can hope for). At the same time, it's not my call and we're still under development, so that may yet change."
SaintDaveUK:
  • About Scotland cultures: "We settled on Gaelic and Scots to model the Irish and English speaking dichotomy that existed, as they are commonly-understood terms in the context of modern Scotland and Scottish history. Other candidates like Alban and Inglis were floated, but felt a bit too uncommon and don't quite carry the same connotations. "

Also see pengoyo's tread about his interesting idea about a new, parallel way of grouping cultures.
 
Last edited:
  • 55
  • 25Like
  • 16
Reactions:

Vias

Second Lieutenant
60 Badges
Jun 22, 2013
165
302
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
So, I'll start with something I don't get. What should be the Cisalpine culture? I don't think there even was something called "cisalpine culture" or identity in Italy, unlike Occitan and French culture i.e. Also, I'm not so happy about half Italy painted Lombard.
I think they should add Slovenian/Carinthian, Dalmatian and Romanic African too.
 
  • 16
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Bearnest

Makabe Rokurota's Compadre
25 Badges
Jul 1, 2014
745
290
  • Crusader Kings III
I was hoping they would break the French, Occitan and Anglo-saxon blobs, like they did with German. Maybe they former two evolve into regional identities later on - similar to Norse-, but the Anglo-saxons were far from a monolithic identity, and they're supposed to be doomed in1066 (unless William botches the invasion).
I don't know if Visigothic is apt for the Iberian peninsula. My take is that the Goths retained their identity apart from their Hispano-Roman subjects and slowly blended in.
IMHO, the Cisalpine culture is a Northern Italian counterpart for the southern part of the peninsula. Notice there's an Italian culture in Lazio and Tuscany, and a Lombard culture in Benevento. Maybe the Cisalpine culture is the blending of Langobard and Roman, and eventually drifts to Italian, IDK.
 
  • 14
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Vias

Second Lieutenant
60 Badges
Jun 22, 2013
165
302
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
I was hoping they would break the French, Occitan and Anglo-saxon blobs, like they did with German. Maybe they former two evolve into regional identities later on - similar to Norse-, but the Anglo-saxons were far from a monolithic identity, and they're supposed to be doomed in1066 (unless William botches the invasion).
I don't know if Visigothic is apt for the Iberian peninsula. My take is that the Goths retained their identity apart from their Hispano-Roman subjects and slowly blended in.
IMHO, the Cisalpine culture is a Northern Italian counterpart for the southern part of the peninsula. Notice there's an Italian culture in Lazio and Tuscany, and a Lombard culture in Benevento. Maybe the Cisalpine culture is the blending of Langobard and Roman, and eventually drifts to Italian, IDK.
Yeah, I feel that having some culture blobs its strange too, expecially if other cultures are broken into more parts. Maybe Occitan culture could be split into Occitan and Arpitan.
Regarding Visigohic I agree with you, there should be an Ibero/Hispano-Roman culture in Iberia imo.
Regarding Cisalpine culture I tought too about a melting pot between Langobard and Roman, like a transition fase to italian, but I feel it's just strange, it feels a little "artificial". I hope devs will say something about it at one point before release.
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:

kikispoke111

Emperor Of C#
69 Badges
Nov 4, 2015
30
130
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris
Personally what bothers me the most is the naming of the Rus culture, as Russian. This obviously creates a connotation to modern day or imperial Russian culture rather than to the ancestor culture to all Eastern Slavs that were the Rus. I feel like it was a very disregardful move by paradox as these inaccuracies play into people's perceptions of a culture, especially as a complicated and political thing as eastern slavic identity
 
  • 32
  • 9
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Vias

Second Lieutenant
60 Badges
Jun 22, 2013
165
302
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
Personally what bothers me the most is the naming of the Rus culture, as Russian. This obviously creates a connotation to modern day or imperial Russian culture rather than to the ancestor culture to all Eastern Slavs that were the Rus. I feel like it was a very disregardful move by paradox as these inaccuracies play into people's perceptions of a culture, especially as a complicated and political thing as eastern slavic identity
Yeah, I felt to that was not really accurate to write "Russian" for the Rus culture. Aside for the political and people's sensivity, it's not really historically accurate. I'll write on the OP post, thank you.
 
  • 12
  • 7
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Puking Panda

Major
47 Badges
Mar 4, 2012
576
315
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
Cisalpine is basically Gallo-Italian, the ethnic and linguistic descendants of the Romanized Gauls of Cisalpine Gaul.

Personally what bothers me the most is the naming of the Rus culture, as Russian. This obviously creates a connotation to modern day or imperial Russian culture rather than to the ancestor culture to all Eastern Slavs that were the Rus. I feel like it was a very disregardful move by paradox as these inaccuracies play into people's perceptions of a culture, especially as a complicated and political thing as eastern slavic identity
I can agree, I mean if they're going to split Italian up in like 3 or 4 parts why not do them same with Russians.
kJS7zdj.png

Many of these tribal groups had strong ethnic identities up until like the 12th century. Would be nice if these cultures would be there and which could later be assimilated into a greater Ruthenian and/or Russian culture in case they get united into a single realm for a long enough time.
 
  • 25
  • 11
  • 5Like
Reactions:

Vias

Second Lieutenant
60 Badges
Jun 22, 2013
165
302
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
Cisalpine is basically Gallo-Italian, the ethnic and linguistic descendants of the Romanized Gauls of Cisalpine Gaul.
I don't think this is too much accurate though. I mean, the dialect/languages are indeed Gallo-Italic, but Romans deported a lot of Gauls (as slaves i.e.) and founded a lot of cities (like the colony of Mediolanum, nowadays Milano). The conquer of Northern Italy started a bit later the conquest of Etruria (middle of the first sec. B.C.) so it doens't really make sense to think of northern Italy as something different of the rest of the peninsula if Toscany or Emilia are considered Italian imho.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the map and the contribution about the Rus' cultures!
 
  • 9
Reactions:

kikispoke111

Emperor Of C#
69 Badges
Nov 4, 2015
30
130
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris
Yeah, I felt to that was not really accurate to write "Russian" for the Rus culture. Aside for the political and people's sensivity, it's not really historically accurate. I'll write on the OP post, thank you.
Thanks a lot, I really do hope it gets changed, as being half Ukrainian playing as a "Russian" tribe in the 800s just feels weird

Many of these tribal groups had strong ethnic identities up until like the 12th century. Would be nice if these cultures would be there and which could later be assimilated into a greater Ruthenian and/or Russian culture in case they get united into a single realm for a long enough time.

Yeah that'd be great but judging from the number of counties that won't split it up too much but even a bit would be nice. And a united Rus culture would be great! Altho again I think it would have to be Rus as Ruthenian traditionally were used for Ukrainians by austrian-hungarians and poles, and Russian wouldn't be great either as that still won't be historically accurate, historically these tribes never properly merged into one and instead merged together in certain regions, separated by the borders of the mongol empire and the Polish-Lithuanian common wealth overtime becoming modern day Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian. Honestly it's a complicated mess to represent this accurately but I think "Rus" is a good neutral way, it's complicated by the fact that people living in Rus, just called themselves "People of Rus"
 
  • 6
  • 6
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Bearnest

Makabe Rokurota's Compadre
25 Badges
Jul 1, 2014
745
290
  • Crusader Kings III
I just noticed that there's no Basques in Aquitaine.

Sorry to bother you @Vias , but could you add the Culture map of 1066, for comparison? I know I've seen it somewhere
 
  • 4
Reactions:

Sugary

Captain
50 Badges
Mar 30, 2012
481
245
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Sengoku
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines
Latgalian should not be the culture of the whole of Latvia at either start date. They were only one eastern tribe that became dominant well after the region was conquered and devastated in the 1200s.
If for the sake of simplicity you want to keep the whole of Latvia one culture then simply rename it "Latvian" otherwise, Curonian and Semigallian should also be introduced for historical accuracy.
Furthermore, the northern Curonian coast was inhabited by Livonians not Balts in both start dates.
 
  • 4
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Despotism

Captain
33 Badges
Mar 24, 2019
327
677
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
- No Romanic African culturein Africa.
Having a small Christian Romanized Berber culture in North Africa could be fun for 867, they probably wouldn't do anything on their own, but if the player wanted to have fun with it they could.
 
  • 7
Reactions:

cybrxkhan

Going to Scarborough Fair
54 Badges
Jul 14, 2012
7.793
2.288
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
Off the top of my head, Circassian culture would be nice in the Caucasus region.

I also think Omani should be in to represent Eastern Arabia. A South Semetic/South Arabian/Soqotri culture would be nice too, though may be too small for the game's scope.

Also, the division between Irish and Gaelic as seen in one screenshot is a little weird.

So, I'll start with something I don't get. What should be the Cisalpine culture? I don't think there even was something called "cisalpine culture" or identity in Italy, unlike Occitan and French culture i.e. Also, I'm not so happy about half Italy painted Lombard.
I think they should add Slovenian/Carinthian, Dalmatian and Romanic African too.

I can understand having Cisalpine but do agree a better name is needed. Lombard I suppose would have connotations of being associated with the Germanic Lombards so it'd be kind of weird.

Maybe it would be better to split Cisalpine into several cultures? For example Ligurian for the eastern side, Lombard in the central, and Venetian in the west? (And then rename the current Italian to Tuscan or something) Though I presume that might not be adequate for some.
 
  • 4
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

pengoyo

Major
67 Badges
Dec 9, 2015
718
1.939
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
The two names I know of for northern Italy during this period are cisalpine (based on Latin) and Lombardy (which was used in a wider sense then it is today).

Lombard would have been my preferred name instead of Cisalpine. But I can understand why Pardox might not have chosen it. The Lombards are still nominally around in southern Italy (though they have by this time been absorbed into the local culture). But it would probably be confusing to have Lombard culture in the north and Italians calling themselves Lombards in the south.

The other option is to call the north Italian and call the south Lombard, Sicilian, or Neapolitan. But these all have the problem of applying a term to a wider group of people than it was never applied to.

But I will defend paradox's idea to split the Italian culture in two. The north and south of Italy had been on divergent paths throughout the middle ages.

Edit: grammar
 
Last edited:
  • 11
Reactions:

Bearnest

Makabe Rokurota's Compadre
25 Badges
Jul 1, 2014
745
290
  • Crusader Kings III
Lombard would have been my preferred name instead of Cisalpine. But I can understand why Pardox might not have chosen it. The Lombards are still nominally around in southern Italy (though they have by this time been absorbed into the local culture). But it would probably be confusing to have Lombard culture in the north and Italians calling themselves Lombard in the south.
This is exactly what I was thinking, it's scary. I didn't add it to my post because I didn't want to clutter it.
I agree that Cisalpine culture feels artificial, but it's understandable why the devs did it like that.
 
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Puking Panda

Major
47 Badges
Mar 4, 2012
576
315
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
I don't think this is too much accurate though. I mean, the dialect/languages are indeed Gallo-Italic, but Romans deported a lot of Gauls (as slaves i.e.) and founded a lot of cities (like the colony of Mediolanum, nowadays Milano). The conquer of Northern Italy started a bit later the conquest of Etruria (middle of the first sec. B.C.) so it doens't really make sense to think of northern Italy as something different of the rest of the peninsula if Toscany or Emilia are considered Italian imho.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the map and the contribution about the Rus' cultures!
The Romans did not found Mediolanum, there was already a city build by the Cisalpine Gauls on that location, the Romans just took control of it and renamed it.

There were significant linguistic differences between Gallo-Italian and the Italian spoken further south around Rome and Tuscany.


I think Central Italian and Tuscan Italian are close enough to both be called Italian. Should also be noted that there have always been, and still are to this day, strong local identities in Italy, particularly North vs South Italians. Really there should be either 3 or 5 culture in Italy. Cisalpine(or Lombard), Italian and Sicilian(as a melting pot culture) with Venetian and Neapolitian as optional extra's.

This is exactly what I was thinking, it's scary. I didn't add it to my post because I didn't want to clutter it.
I agree that Cisalpine culture feels artificial, but it's understandable why the devs did it like that.
I agree with this. I think they should go with either Cisalpine or Lombard instead of having both.
 
  • 6
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

EldarPanic

Colonel
35 Badges
Sep 30, 2012
887
1.245
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
Other issues:
No albanian
No assyrian
No circassian
The spread of Romanian culture is wrong ( at that time they should be around the mountains not in the middle of Serbia) along with the North-eastern part of Bulgaria( should be Bulgar instead of Bulgarian)
Also dont know much about this one but shouldn't bosniak culture appear much later?

Personally I would recommend looking at how the HIP mod handles it, they honestly did such an excellent job with how they handled cultures.

Edit: How the Hip map looks
Capture.PNG
 
Last edited:
  • 14
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

SchwarzKatze

Field Marshal
46 Badges
Nov 8, 2008
5.250
3.458
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings III
  • 7
Reactions:

.Me

Major
38 Badges
Oct 1, 2012
567
671
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
I agree with most of the corrections proposed in this topic.

But I want to give my uber-autistic contribute to this.

First point, Italy, to me, need a lot of corrections, now looks like a mess.
In the first place the name "Lombard" generates too much confusion, the germanic tribe should imho be called Langobard (and should not be into the game at the time), while the Lombards are the actual inhabitant of the western Padan plain, it's important to differentiate the two.
True that "Langobard" was used as synonymous for all the inhabitants of the Langobard kingdom into the middle ages but it was not an ethnic name rather a political one, the ethnic name of the Italian population was just Italic at the time.
So seeing that "Lombard" in Italy is, from my point of view, like having "Papal" as a culture because there's not enough imagination for a better name. (just an example, I'm not blaming paradox)
The Langobards settled in most of the peninsula, true, but they were just an aristocracy, who intermixed with the locals and adopted the local Latin dialects, customs, religion and so on, it's really wrong in my opinion to have them as a separate culture still in the IX century, and even more wrong having them as the main culture in all those regions. Just to make you understand the definition was only juridical, in many regions of Italy people were able to choose between Roman law or Langobard law freely in the case of a trial.
While I like a lot the decision to put into the game the Cisalpine culture because it breaks the blob, the name is kinda nonsensical, actually, it would be way more simple to divide Italy into three main cultural areas from the start of the game, for simplicity and gameplay reasons I would just add a "Lombard" culture into all the northwest of the peninsula, a "Venetian" culture into the north-east (Veneto, Trentino, Istria later into the game), leaving the rest of the south and central Italy just as "Italic".
It would be awesome a melting pot even for the creation of Sicilian and Neapolitan cultures, but... better to avoid, we would need to split also into Tuscan, Romanesque, Umbrian... It would become a mess again.
This way
Senza nome.jpg


Another point: Dalmatian should be present, in Istria and coastal Dalmatia. It's kinda important, I mean, the central-southern Italian language group is called "Italo-Dalmatian" because this language/culture existed too.

Another thing I would like to add, but it's less important, just a curiosity:
No one ever took into consideration the presence of Rhaeto-Romance culture, the entirety of the alpine arch was populated by them, and they were later Germanized or Italianized but they're still alive into modern Friulian, Romansch and Ladin. I don't know, maybe there are few sources or are not interesting enough for a game but I kinda love those small almost forgotten details.

Also agree into the splitting of the Big Blue Blob, cutting off Arpitan from French into what's more of less the kingdom of Burgundy.
 
Last edited:
  • 18
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions: