Culture groups need to be removed

[Gratak]

How about this, whenever you conquer a province of a brand new culture the province gets a cultural acceptance modifier from -100%-0% affecting things like manpower etc. This would tick from -100% to 0% over time. Now if you make the value of that tick proportional to how much of that culture you control (as a % of total dev), something like Ottomans conquering Albania could become accepted quickly whereas France conquering Kent would almost never be accepted without the French conquering more English territory.

This is purely advantageous for large countries. Why would you want to buff them even more? I like the over time part, but in my opinion it should depend on other factors: First, the %of that culture of YOUR total dev). Furthermore, one could think of a bonus for historical friendships and a malus for historical enemies. It could also be influenced by your current diplomatic relation with countries of that primary culture.

 

[Xara]

How about this, whenever you conquer a province of a brand new culture the province gets a cultural acceptance modifier from -100%-0% affecting things like manpower etc. This would tick from -100% to 0% over time. Now if you make the value of that tick proportional to how much of that culture you control (as a % of total dev), something like Ottomans conquering Albania could become accepted quickly whereas France conquering Kent would almost never be accepted without the French conquering more English territory.

Edit: thinking about it it would better if culture changed from -50% to +50%, both so that accepted cultures are more productive and because of the way it would interact with LA.

Yea I've suggested similar before. Accepted culture should not just be a flat percent boom you gain boom you lose it, it should slowly happen and lead to permanent acceptance.

I did see in the patch notes they had something about perma accepted cultures which they later removed, so maybe that's coming down the line.

 

[Aries666]

This is purely advantageous for large countries. Why would you want to buff them even more? I like the over time part, but in my opinion it should depend on other factors: First, the %of that culture of YOUR total dev). Furthermore, one could think of a bonus for historical friendships and a malus for historical enemies. It could also be influenced by your current diplomatic relation with countries of that primary culture.

Aye, was just throwing ideas around. Not sure how this favours larger countries aside from the fact that a larger country has more of its primary culture and therefore isn't reliant on new provinces becoming productive more quickly but this is already the case with LA. It would also be nice if it could work the other way say France has conquered a lot of England and therefore have high acceptance of English culture if the English manage to fight back French acceptance of English should diminish. Essentially every nation should have an acceptance value between -50% and +50% for all cultures in their realm outside of their primary culture and that value should fluctuate according to how much of a given culture you control.

 

[Roki_09]

Romanian is not a Slavic language.
But I agree with the rest.

They also dont speak latin and their language is closer to Slavic then Italian...

 

[Gratak]

Aye, was just throwing ideas around. Not sure how this favours larger countries aside from the fact that a larger country has more of its primary culture and therefore isn't reliant on new provinces becoming productive more quickly but this is already the case with LA. It would also be nice if it could work the other way say France has conquered a lot of England and therefore have high acceptance of English culture if the English manage to fight back French acceptance of English should diminish. Essentially every nation should have an acceptance value between -50% and +50% for all cultures in their realm outside of their primary culture and that value should fluctuate according to how much of a given culture you control.

Well a larger country will usually take a large chunk of newly conquered land. This means they may conquer some complete cultures in a single war and would then very fast get them accepted. Small countries on the other hand will only has small parts of a foreign culture and have to wait forever. If accepted culture is related to YOUR dev on the other hand, small countries can get an accepted culture easier.

 

[Xara]

Well a larger country will usually take a large chunk of newly conquered land. This means they may conquer some complete cultures in a single war and would then very fast get them accepted. Small countries on the other hand will only has small parts of a foreign culture and have to wait forever. If accepted culture is related to YOUR dev on the other hand, small countries can get an accepted culture easier.

You just make the gain of acceptance relative to the portion of your empire it makes up.

Tuscan conquering Umbrian and ending up 50% Tuscan 50% Umbrian should gain acceptance on Umbrian very quickly.
Turkish conquering Egyptian and ending up 10% Egyptian should gain acceptance on Egyptian much slower, even if it represents hundreds more development compared to the first example.

 

[Gratak]

You just make the gain of acceptance relative to the portion of your empire it makes up.

Tuscan conquering Umbrian and ending up 50% Tuscan 50% Umbrian should gain acceptance on Umbrian very quickly.
Turkish conquering Egyptian and ending up 10% Egyptian should gain acceptance on Egyptian much slower, even if it represents hundreds more development compared to the first example.

Thats exactly what i proposed.

 

[Gwyn ap Nud]

They also dont speak latin and their language is closer to Slavic then Italian...

Mmm, my French teacher was Romanian, and she said before she learned other Romance languages she could juuuuust follow along based on the similarities. It was especially strong with Portuguese, strangely enough.

 

[Grand Historian]

Normally I'm opposed to most suggested changes to how culture groups work given how choppy acceptance is (or they just end up simplifying or over-abstracting the process even more), but I have to say this is quite an excellent suggestion.

This, of course, brings up the question of how acceptance and penalties would work and apply with this system.

 

[Incompetent]

From a realism perspective I can see the argument for introducing a relation between cultures that isn't transitive, but it could be a bit confusing for players to have no pattern at all in how cultures are related.

One compromise would be to have culture groups, but allow them a limited amount of overlap, so e.g. Breton is both in the French group and the Celtic group. When you become a cultural union, you need to decide which group to represent.

 

[VincentX]

From a realism perspective I can see the argument for introducing a relation between cultures that isn't transitive, but it could be a bit confusing for players to have no pattern at all in how cultures are related.

One compromise would be to have culture groups, but allow them a limited amount of overlap, so e.g. Breton is both in the French group and the Celtic group. When you become a cultural union, you need to decide which group to represent.

Use regions. They're already in-game.

Change this:

Spoiler

Same culture group

−15% Local tax modifier
−15% Local manpower modifier

Different culture group

−33% Local tax modifier
−2% Local missionary strength
−33% Local manpower modifier
+2 Local unrest

to this:

Spoiler

Same culture group OR same region

−15% Local tax modifier
−15% Local manpower modifier


Different culture group

−33% Local tax modifier
−2% Local missionary strength
−33% Local manpower modifier
+2 Local unrest

And introduce 'regional unions', which work the same as cultural unions. Force the player / AI to pick between either.


Problem solved. Sense can return to culture groups.

 

[Ratanka]

but ... you would just change the name GROUP to RELATED ...

 

[Incompetent]

Use regions. They're already in-game.

I take it your 'home region' would be your capital's region? This could make it a bit too easy for say France to move its capital to Barcelona, and get 'same group' benefits on both France and Iberia. But it could still be balanced if choosing to be a 'union' for one of them means you lose all your advantages for non-primary cultures in the other group.

 

[VincentX]

I take it your 'home region' would be your capital's region? This could make it a bit too easy for say France to move its capital to Barcelona, and get 'same group' benefits on both France and Iberia.

Nope, not if you force a choice between either cultural union or regional union. France would have to go for regional union to get the benefit from moving its capital to Barcelona, which means it is no longer a cultural union for the French group nor a regional union for the French region and it loses all those benefits. All Iberic cultures would be accepted, yes, but nothing else would be.

 

[DS_McWerp]

Personally I don't understand why accepted cultures can EVER stop being accepted. Like, we used to think you were cool, and accepted you into our country, but now that we conquered Poland too, we don't need you anymore get out?

 

[mattkunz]

The transitive property would disagree with you

Yes it would, if cultural relation actually had the transitive property. Not everything does...
Easy example blood relation. Every child is related to both it's parents, thankfully this does not in turn mean, that it's parents are blood related, otherwise a lot of relationships would become creepy and incestious.

 

[Raczynski]

They also dont speak latin and their language is closer to Slavic then Italian...

That's completely wrong.

 

[oblio-]

That's completely wrong.

He probably thinks that because there are a lot of loanwords from another language, then that language is dominant.
As far as I know, that's not how language families work, as loanwords abound in most languages. A language family is defined by grammar, core vocabulary and rules of pronunciation, first and foremost and only after that by the extended vocabulary. I'm not a linguist, though.

Still, saying that Romanian is not a Romance (Latin) language is... quite funny

 

[Brainblow]

Agreed. This proposal is a sensible one.

 

[Orctavius]

This is the best suggestion regarding culture groups I've yet heard.