Culture change

[ConjurerDragon]

I think I made a mistake after I read the FAQ about culture change - in my current game my Duke of Bavaria conquered the heathens in nowadays Lybia and created himself a 2nd ducal title "Duke of Tripolis".

Almost immediately half the coast from Bengasi (the former Emirate of Cyrenaica) to the province in Tunisia with K...? The former Ben Halel? kingdom had revolt tags added to the newly conquered arab/muslim provinces. The last conquered province even got an event "granting" it a thieves guild and more illegal buildings because they were so far away from me and could not be fully controlled as the event described it.

As I already planned to grant those provinces away that were above the Intrigue/Efficiency limit to the Dukes two younger brothers who are his vassals I went one step further and decided to relocate the Dukes capital and grant away counties to get the capital closer to the ruled provinces: I granted the capital county of Niederbayern to the youngest brother (who also helds Würtemberg and Ulm) so that the Duke has no provinces in Bajuvaria or even Germany left. The middle brother holds Lombardia and Cremona in Italy.
And the Duke himself (of Bavaria and Tripolis) now only rules directly the lybian/tunesian provinces with his capital being Bengasi.

Now he has only provinces closer to his capital so that I would be spared those evil events I thought only that he still is a german/catholic with arab/muslim provinces.

However the culture FAQ I read mentions that the CAPITAL must be the source of culture - does that mean that Lybia will never turn catholic german because the Duke now resides in Bengasi?

So when he dies and the middle brother with provinces only in Italy inherits I won´t get german/catholic Lybia either but italian Lybia?

And only if he also dies and the youngest with the german provinces becomes duke will they have a chance again to turn catholic/german?

What would happen if I grant the youngest the Duke of Tripolis NOW while all 3 still live - can he influence the culture of those provinces from Würtemberg when they are ruled by his liege in Bengasi?

Would the youngest still be a vassal to the Duke of Bavaria if I grant him the Duke of Tripolis - or is that like with counts that noone of equal rank can vassalize someone?

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Regardless of how you make your situation, the regular cultural conversion is not going to give you Bratwurst eating Arabs and Oktoberfests under the Libyan sun
Because you lack a land or overseas connection between your German holdings and your African holdings. But it doesn't have to be the capital from where the culture spread starts, IIRC it's just more likely if it is the capital.

The only chance to get a culture change is the (rare) nobles revolt event in one of the African provinces, and even that one gives you only a chance of a cultural flip, not a guarantee.

However as long as you marry German brides your rulers will stay Germans so you have enough time to do work on the conversion of the locals...

What I would do is grant away the German provinces (like you did already) and the ducal titles to a younger son, then continue playing as a German in Libya and work on expanding your lands. Converting your lands to catholicism would be your first goal, also conquering the rest of Tunesia and becoming the official King of Africa. Egypt is also very very very rich and has a king title that you can get if you own enough land there.

Then as time goes by if you put noble power to zero or near zero in your provinces maybe you will get the nobles revolt event eventually... then and only then can you start spreading German culture in Africa. The best spots to start cultural spread is in the rich cities, i.e. Tunis, Cairo, Alexandria. If succeed in getting German culture in or near one of those provinces, then the game should offer you enough time to get culture flips in most of Egypt and Tunesia... I played as Sicily a while ago and once Alexandria flipped to Italian (about 40 years after the conquest), Cairo quickly did so too and within 20-30 years half the provinces in Egypt became Italian. I also got Italian culture in Tunis, Kairouan, and Tripoli. The rest of Africa stayed Arabic, though until I lost the save game (1280s)

 

[ConjurerDragon]

...
The only chance to get a culture change is the (rare) nobles revolt event in one of the African provinces, and even that one gives you only a chance of a cultural flip, not a guarantee.

I had a popular? revolt event in Tripolis and it changed from muslim/arab to catholic/arab - well, revolting, looted catholic/arab so still income of 0 but at least catholic...
No wonder the revolt had an 80% chance and the conversion a 40% chance of happening.

However as long as you marry German brides your rulers will stay Germans so you have enough time to do work on the conversion of the locals...

I read on this forum that the capitals culture could produce children of same culture. So I could happen to have arabian children. Would not be too bad, as it would be at least some children - at the moment there are only *3* Wittelsbachs. The 3 sons of the first Wittelsbach ruler. And not a single child in 20 years of gameplay...

What I would do is grant away the German provinces (like you did already) and the ducal titles to a younger son,

I did already grant away the german provinces, however to the youngest brother as there are no children yet. However why would you grant the ducal title away?

then continue playing as a German in Libya and work on expanding your lands. Converting your lands to catholicism would be your first goal, also conquering the rest of Tunesia and becoming the official King of Africa.

I did not want to expand more with the current ruler as I already had a bad reputation, however the Zirid Kingdom declared war on me - so now I took Tunis and created my 3rd ducal title. Now the current ruler is Duke of Bavaria, Tripolis and Tunis.
But it´s still a long way to King of Africa and despite granting another province to one of my vassals my reputation is still very bad so I plan to keep the peace for a while until the reputation becomes better and my vassals don´t lose more than 7% loyalty each month...

 

[unmerged(87945)]

If u need 100% precise information on how to achieve best chances for cultural conversion check conditions and modifiers in game folder/db/events/provincial_conversion_events. If i remember correctly, your main character (the one you begin game with) has a preset culture and religion. So will his children and childrens kids etc. So if ure German/Catholic, and u conquer, lets say, Russian/Orthodox, from the date u annex that province, you have base chance of 1 in 6000 months for mass conversion event to fire which will set religion to Catholic, and 1 in 2000 months for similar event to fire which will set culture to German. Those 2 values, are base, unmodified, so in practice it will take much less time with modifiers like naval access, naval improvements, d.bishop, etc etc etc ull find details in that folder i mentioned above.

The very best thing u can do with conquered provinces with different religion than your main one is to grant them to someone else, as many different people as possible, and also make sure to build Churches and religious buildings cause they have major impact on switching religion. More counts you have more chance u have to make some area christian for i.e. 20 counts X 1:6000 + those revolt events is way better than lets say, 2 princes X 1:6000 + revolt events in my opinion, u can always revoke titles after conversion

 

[unmerged(75409)]

I had a popular? revolt event in Tripolis and it changed from muslim/arab to catholic/arab - well, revolting, looted catholic/arab so still income of 0 but at least catholic...
No wonder the revolt had an 80% chance and the conversion a 40% chance of happening.

That's not the event I meant, but the nobles revolt one is similar.

I read on this forum that the capitals culture could produce children of same culture. So I could happen to have arabian children. Would not be too bad, as it would be at least some children - at the moment there are only *3* Wittelsbachs. The 3 sons of the first Wittelsbach ruler. And not a single child in 20 years of gameplay...

If both parents are from a "light" culture (i.e. they don't look oriental) then the child will be light too, regardless of capital province culture.

I did already grant away the german provinces, however to the youngest brother as there are no children yet. However why would you grant the ducal title away?

You don't have to but I find it a bit irritating if characters have ducal or royal titles to lands that they don't own. Like a duke of Saxony sitting somewhere in England, or a prince of Athens in Scotland. From a role playing perspective it makes no sense that a crusader in Africa would still be considered a duke of the HRE... he would be too far away to attend any of the ceremonies or the imperial elections anyways. So he would give the title to someone else in the family.

I did not want to expand more with the current ruler as I already had a bad reputation, however the Zirid Kingdom declared war on me - so now I took Tunis and created my 3rd ducal title. Now the current ruler is Duke of Bavaria, Tripolis and Tunis.
But it´s still a long way to King of Africa and despite granting another province to one of my vassals my reputation is still very bad so I plan to keep the peace for a while until the reputation becomes better and my vassals don´t lose more than 7% loyalty each month...

7% is a lot However you can quickly reduce your badboy when vassals rebel against you... defeat them totally, then in the peace negotiation just ask that they become your vassals again and recognize their own titles in exchange. Vassalization gives you no rep and recognizing other peoples' titles gives you -0.5 rep per title. Just don't accidentally recongize their claim on your own lands and titles, ok?? You can ask them to drop those claims without effect on your reputation also.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

...
You don't have to but I find it a bit irritating if characters have ducal or royal titles to lands that they don't own. Like a duke of Saxony sitting somewhere in England, or a prince of Athens in Scotland. From a role playing perspective it makes no sense that a crusader in Africa would still be considered a duke of the HRE... he would be too far away to attend any of the ceremonies or the imperial elections anyways. So he would give the title to someone else in the family.

Mmmh, I tried to "grant title" to the youngest brother (who already holds Niederbayern, Ulm and Württemberg - but I can´t. The "Duke of Bavaria" is greyed out and can´t be granted away. All other titles like Duke of Tunis or Tripolis I could grant him but not the first title.

 

[unmerged(109735)]

Mmmh, I tried to "grant title" to the youngest brother (who already holds Niederbayern, Ulm and Württemberg - but I can´t. The "Duke of Bavaria" is greyed out and can´t be granted away. All other titles like Duke of Tunis or Tripolis I could grant him but not the first title.

Is Bavaria your primary title, meaning that it is the first in your among your three ducal titles and that your portrait shows the coat of arms of Bavaria? If so, you can't grant this title away; only additional titles can be conferred upon others, never the primary one.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

There's a thread on how to change your primary title by switching a few words in the save game file... You would need to change it so that you become duke of Tunis or Tripoli first.

 

[WanderingKnight]

Did you see this map.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8435012&postcount=4
This is esential of how the culture spread. This are the provences that you have to hold in order to spread culture. In your case check from Bayern to Lybia.

You can find other usefull information in a thread made by Veld up on this page.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The only chance to get a culture change is the (rare) nobles revolt event in one of the African provinces, and even that one gives you only a chance of a cultural flip, not a guarantee.

That event only works for pagan-provinces.

 

[High Wood]

Are the modifiers that involve different levels of attributes or improvements cumulative?

For example:

If my ruler's stewardship is 15, do I simply get a modifier of .9, or a modifier of .9*.9*.9 = .729?

If I have a Grand Shipyard, is the modifier .9, or .729?

If I have a Cathedral, is the modifier 1.1 or is it 1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1 = 1.4641?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I think they are cumulative, though I am not sure about it.

 

[GrimPagan]

Question about culture change, I seem to remember that before you needed the province owner to be of the right culture to get the change. But from what I understand you now only need the ruler to be of the "right" culture to get the change you want? Is this right?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Question about culture change, I seem to remember that before you needed the province owner to be of the right culture to get the change. But from what I understand you now only need the ruler to be of the "right" culture to get the change you want? Is this right?

The ruler of the province has no influence on the cultural conversion event. So if you are a Polish king of Poland then Brandenburg (if it is part of your kingdom of course) might get Polish culture even though the count of Brandenburg is German.

 

[TempestDK]

The ruler of the province has no influence on the cultural conversion event. So if you are a Polish king of Poland then Brandenburg (if it is part of your kingdom of course) might get Polish culture even though the count of Brandenburg is German.

Hmmm ... what about my catalan King of Aragon (and the rest of Spain)... I gave the Barcelona province (formerly my capital) to the newly appointed duke of Barcelona, while my capital moved to Valencia (which is currently berber I believe) ... Can I expect Valencia to ever turn Catalan?? ... or will I have to move back to Barcelona, and then spread through Tarragona and the next province, to get to Valencia and beyond??

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Hmmm ... what about my catalan King of Aragon (and the rest of Spain)... I gave the Barcelona province (formerly my capital) to the newly appointed duke of Barcelona, while my capital moved to Valencia (which is currently berber I believe) ... Can I expect Valencia to ever turn Catalan?? ... or will I have to move back to Barcelona, and then spread through Tarragona and the next province, to get to Valencia and beyond??

As long as you have a king with Catalan culture, Valencia should at some point become Catalan to. You don't need to have a Catalan province in your demesne for that,

 

[ConjurerDragon]

As long as you have a king with Catalan culture, Valencia should at some point become Catalan to. You don't need to have a Catalan province in your demesne for that,

And in the case of a german king of Leon and Castille whose capital is in arab Badajoz? will Badajzoz turn to the culture of the person of the king or that of the kingdom?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

And in the case of a german king of Leon and Castille whose capital is in arab Badajoz? will Badajzoz turn to the culture of the person of the king or that of the kingdom?

In order for German culture to spread you need to have at least one province in your realm that has German culture, but then it can not directly convert Badajoz to German culture. In order for that to happen, Badajoz needs to border a province with German culture.

Lets say as a German king of Leon and Castille you also own the province of Hamburg (which relatively speaking as the closest German cultured province to Iberia (through 'trade-routes'). From Hamburg the German culture can then spread to Saintonge-province (which also needs to be part of your realm). From Saintonge it can spread to Cadiz, from Cadiz it can then spread to either Niebla or Aracena and then to Badajoz.

Hamburg -> Saintonge
Saintonge -> Cadiz
Cadiz -> Niebla/Aracena
Niebla/Aracena -> Badajoz

All these province need to be part of your realm (not necessaraly your demesne).

German culture can only spread in your realm when your king has German culture. Arab culture can only spread if your king has Arab culture.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

...
Lets say as a German king of Leon and Castille you also own the province of Hamburg (which relatively speaking as the closest German cultured province to Iberia (through 'trade-routes'). From Hamburg the German culture can then spread to Saintonge-province (which also needs to be part of your realm). From Saintonge it can spread to Cadiz, from Cadiz it can then spread to either Niebla or Aracena and then to Badajoz.

I have Pfalz, Venezia and Syracuse in my own demesne outside of Spain.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I have Pfalz, Venezia and Syracuse in my own demesne outside of Spain.

Yes ?

Check the map in the FAQ-section, with that you can trace a route from Germany to Spain. Culture can only spread from one province to another. So if the Pfalz is your only province with German culture in your kingdom then you must first conquer a whole lot of other provinces before it can spread to Iberia.

EDIT
Also if you have those provinces within your demesne (and you also seem to have Badajoz) without running into problems then install this event by Vertinox. Having such a wide-spread demesne isn't realistic IMHO