hey i saw some ppl complaining about culture changing too fast and i agree, it shld be a long drawn out process that involves player interaction at certain points, any chance we could atleast see a longer average change time in the future?
culture change to fast
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let me paint a picture,
There was a "danish" man and his "danish" son are hunting in the woods, the boy manages to hit a rabbit with a arrow, and shouts out in his native tounge, his father looks to his son in shock, a look of horror on his face,
'Son!!, we're not estonian anymore, remember the danish king conquered us and made us all danish 12 months ago (literally)' his son nods his head and replies in danish, still adjusting to the ways of his new cultural heritage.
never seen that happened in my country we have native maori people still around for 200 years despite our ancestors trying to genocide them all.
edit: despite seeing things like this happen, rest of the game is great and arleady preordered digital edition, so dont get me wrong im not a hater.
There was a "danish" man and his "danish" son are hunting in the woods, the boy manages to hit a rabbit with a arrow, and shouts out in his native tounge, his father looks to his son in shock, a look of horror on his face,
'Son!!, we're not estonian anymore, remember the danish king conquered us and made us all danish 12 months ago (literally)' his son nods his head and replies in danish, still adjusting to the ways of his new cultural heritage.
never seen that happened in my country we have native maori people still around for 200 years despite our ancestors trying to genocide them all.
edit: despite seeing things like this happen, rest of the game is great and arleady preordered digital edition, so dont get me wrong im not a hater.
No one said that it was the whole population that was assimilated. People read way too literally into it.
I always took it as a cultural elite inside that province being replaced by one of my culture, like the Normans debarking in England and replacing all Saxons nobles by Normans lords.
I always took it as a cultural elite inside that province being replaced by one of my culture, like the Normans debarking in England and replacing all Saxons nobles by Normans lords.
Who cares what language the peasants use?
The important thing is that the various elites use Danish and that Estonian gentry/nobility start using Danish in order to get status and power in the new dispensation.
If we take a look at the Norman conquest of England we find this process of cultural change more or less complete by 1100, with Anglo-Saxons still forming the overwhelming majority of the populace but barely present in the elites at all. It was a particularly ruthless and effective conquest for sure, almost as if William the Bastard spent all his points on coring and changing England's culture
I think it is certainly possible that the cost of changing culture in the game might be too low, but a lot of people are taking a far too modern approach to what a "culture change" might represent.
The important thing is that the various elites use Danish and that Estonian gentry/nobility start using Danish in order to get status and power in the new dispensation.
If we take a look at the Norman conquest of England we find this process of cultural change more or less complete by 1100, with Anglo-Saxons still forming the overwhelming majority of the populace but barely present in the elites at all. It was a particularly ruthless and effective conquest for sure, almost as if William the Bastard spent all his points on coring and changing England's culture
I think it is certainly possible that the cost of changing culture in the game might be too low, but a lot of people are taking a far too modern approach to what a "culture change" might represent.
So, why are there Welsch and Basque culture ? For example ?Who cares what language the peasants use?
The important thing is that the various elites use Danish and that Estonian gentry/nobility start using Danish in order to get status and power in the new dispensation.
If we take a look at the Norman conquest of England we find this process of cultural change more or less complete by 1100, with Anglo-Saxons still forming the overwhelming majority of the populace but barely present in the elites at all. It was a particularly ruthless and effective conquest for sure, almost as if William the Bastard spent all his points on coring and changing England's culture
I think it is certainly possible that the cost of changing culture in the game might be too low, but a lot of people are taking a far too modern approach to what a "culture change" might represent.
You can't argue Aristocracy? In 1848 - most of the minorities that rebelled against the Austrian Empire, were ethnic Aristocrats.
For instance, the Germans controlled Galicia for over 200 years and yet the Aristocracy was still Polish in 1918.
Culture change arguably never happened much in this period, with exception of Anatolia, Southern Spain and the Tatars on the steppe.
For instance, the Germans controlled Galicia for over 200 years and yet the Aristocracy was still Polish in 1918.
Culture change arguably never happened much in this period, with exception of Anatolia, Southern Spain and the Tatars on the steppe.
I would argue that the Austrians did not spend enough power on cultural change, so were shafted when nationalism became a factor :laugh:
It is one reason why the game ends when it does. By the time the game ends the fact that the Galician aristocracy are ethnic Poles matters, in 1700 not so much, the important thing being whether the magnates are for or against the status quo.
If you think about it that is why we have the complicated POP system for Victoria but skimp on such things for EU.
Playing as the Ottomans in the demo I decided that imposing cultural change wasn't worth it. I'm hoping that in the full game it will often not be worth it, at least in the case of highly-populated areas of the Old World.
It is one reason why the game ends when it does. By the time the game ends the fact that the Galician aristocracy are ethnic Poles matters, in 1700 not so much, the important thing being whether the magnates are for or against the status quo.
If you think about it that is why we have the complicated POP system for Victoria but skimp on such things for EU.
Playing as the Ottomans in the demo I decided that imposing cultural change wasn't worth it. I'm hoping that in the full game it will often not be worth it, at least in the case of highly-populated areas of the Old World.
The culture flip is not the peasantry changing cultures, because in the end most revolts were not mobs of peasants but local disgruntled nobles. The culture flip is supposed to represent the the top brass speaking the official language and adoption of cultural elements from the the ruling culture. Personally, I think it's balanced, if you over extend too fast and you have to start culture flipping to keep your empire from crumbling, you are going to fall behind in technology.
precisely, you can change culture at a relatively fast rate, but with a large repercussion in the form of an underdeveloped nation
I, for one, am getting tired of seeing 20 threads all bitching about culture flips. Don't like the mechanic? Mod it, change it yourself, or don't use it.
no its not you guys are just creating that image in your mind to deal with the reality, if it was true then why is welsh, irish ,scottish culture exist etc? why do i evner have to go into this its quite obvious from culture map what they INTENDED culture to represent.
It really is a bad implemented mechanic, though I am pretty much sure that it was buffed in demo so players can play with it, and in the real game it will cost like 500 monarch points and take like 50 years - increasing revolt risk by at least 10% and whole process being stopped (and points lost) if rebels ever take the province. I also wouldn't be surprised if it triggered multiple events that will put your country in shit position if you decide to be persistent - perhaps requiring further monarch points spending. Same with conversion rate - it was boosted for the purpose of the demo.
I strongly believe Paradox will do it exactly this way, and if it will not be harsh enough - we'll indeed mod it.
Are you suggesting there really wasn't any Welsh, Irish, and Scottish local elite before the English came? You make Llywelyn ap Gruffydd sad.
You all seem to forget, the AI plays by the same rules. When it steals back a core province of yours that you have assimilitated it might assimilate it back to his culture when it sees the gain for it. So culture is meant to be something transient.
The Austrians, not Germans, and for about 120 years, not 200.
But otherwise you're right...
are you kidding? of course they was welsh, scottish, irish, pict, gael, norse, and so on and so on present in britain at some point, what we are talking about is the time period in europa universalis, in which the assimilation of wales was well under way, now answer my question, that if your view that "it represents aristrocracts, not peasants" why is there a welsh culture present?