Cultural Unions

[Semi-Lobster]

I posted this in the Mod subforum a while back but nobody responded so I'll try here.

I was wondering how editable cultural unions are. For example, is it possible, for example, to have a Culture Group not have all the same cultures in a Cultural Union? For example, could I make a Cultural Union of all Arabic cultures but not include Turkish but still be Turko-Semitic? And is it possible to have two cultural unions in a culture group, like having a Dutch cultural union and a German cultural union?

 

[Chamboozer]

Neither of those are possible unless you change what culture group certain cultures belong to.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Neither of those are possible unless you change what culture group certain cultures belong to.

So cultural unions are hard-coded to specific cultures to?

 

[afb]

This is what the /common/cultures file looks like: (from IN)

germanic = {
	union = GER
	pommeranian =  {
		primary = POM
	}
	prussian = {
		primary = PRU
	}
	hannoverian = {
		primary = HAN
	}
	hessian = {
		primary = HES
	}
	saxon = {
		primary = SAX
	}
	rheinlaender = {
		primary = SWI
	}
	bavarian = {
		primary = BAV
	}
	austrian = {
		primary = HAB
	}
	dutch = {
		primary = NED
	}
	flemish = {
		primary = FLA
	}
}

So you can easily mod which country is the union by changing the tag (maybe even have more than one?), and you could move cultures from one group to another or even to a new one, but the basic mechanic is hard-coded.

 

[Chamboozer]

Basically, there can be no more than one union tag for each culture group and no culture can be in two culture groups at once.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

This is what the /common/cultures file looks like: (from IN)

germanic = {
	union = GER
	pommeranian =  {
		primary = POM
	}
	prussian = {
		primary = PRU
	}
	hannoverian = {
		primary = HAN
	}
	hessian = {
		primary = HES
	}
	saxon = {
		primary = SAX
	}
	rheinlaender = {
		primary = SWI
	}
	bavarian = {
		primary = BAV
	}
	austrian = {
		primary = HAB
	}
	dutch = {
		primary = NED
	}
	flemish = {
		primary = FLA
	}
}

So you can easily mod which country is the union by changing the tag (maybe even have more than one?), and you could move cultures from one group to another or even to a new one, but the basic mechanic is hard-coded.

Well I guess I could experiment. My main goal is to create a separate cultural union Dutch/Flemish provinces so I can finally put an end to ridiculous UBER Burgundies that keep popping up that almost always end up steam rolling France and go all the way to Austria

 

[unmerged(84079)]

I don't know how well that would stop Burgundy - you'd probably need a more drastic measure than that - but moving Dutch and Flemish out of the German culture group is quite reasonable imo.

On union tags though, I was under the impression you could have several countries being union countries for the same group - in Germanic I thought both HRE and Germany were unions, in French, France and Rev. France, and in Latin, Italy and Kingdom of God.

 

[afb]

This would probably work:

germanic = {
	union = GER
	pommeranian =  {
		primary = POM
	}
	prussian = {
		primary = PRU
	}
	hannoverian = {
		primary = HAN
	}
	hessian = {
		primary = HES
	}
	saxon = {
		primary = SAX
	}
	rheinlaender = {
		primary = SWI
	}
	bavarian = {
		primary = BAV
	}
	austrian = {
		primary = HAB
	}
}

netherlandic = {         # Not the best of names, I know :-)
	union = NED
	dutch = {
		primary = NED
	}
	flemish = {
		primary = FLA
	}
}

Can't see what it would do to Burgundy though. As far as I know they have burgundian culture, which is in the french culture group, so for them it will be a complete non factor.

 

[Trin Tragula]

As of HTTT there is an event command to turn a nation into a cultural union without it being listed in the culture file.
"culture_group_union = [name of culture group]" will make a country the union of a culture group no matter which country that is. I'm not sure if this also means that the old restrictions to the culture group of your actual primary culture have been lifted as well. It would seem logical that at least the restriction to just one cultural union has been lifted as the new event effect code would function only sporadically otherwise.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

This would probably work:

germanic = {
	union = GER
	pommeranian =  {
		primary = POM
	}
	prussian = {
		primary = PRU
	}
	hannoverian = {
		primary = HAN
	}
	hessian = {
		primary = HES
	}
	saxon = {
		primary = SAX
	}
	rheinlaender = {
		primary = SWI
	}
	bavarian = {
		primary = BAV
	}
	austrian = {
		primary = HAB
	}
}

netherlandic = {         # Not the best of names, I know :-)
	union = NED
	dutch = {
		primary = NED
	}
	flemish = {
		primary = FLA
	}
}

Can't see what it would do to Burgundy though. As far as I know they have burgundian culture, which is in the french culture group, so for them it will be a complete non factor.

But instead of having a 'German' culture as an accepted culture they would have 'Dutch' which would be, not quiet totally ruin any ambitions in Germany but might tip the scale since culture unions do not give a penalty for for cultures in the same union.

As for mucking around with Cultural Unions, I'm 'testing' the waters, to see if any minor cultural changes can make the game less' strange' not that some strangeness isn't fun but when I pause the game and think 'you know, thats just stupid looking'. Not really focusing on multiple cultural unions in one culture group but more having cultures outside cultural unions but still be considered part of that cultural group. Such as Chihan and Cantonese (less blobby Ming), everything but Mongol in Kazakh (so the Oirats have less of a big target on them that says 'kill me') but like I said, just testing things out right now. I haven't even started yet with all the work I've been doing recently though.

 

[unmerged(150720)]

German and Dutch culture were very much the same until about 1500 i think.

This gives you a good overview of what happened and when...

 

[Junuxx]

German and Dutch culture were very much the same until about 1500 i think.

This gives you a good overview of what happened and when...

They gradually grew apart culturally, say between 1350 and 1550. Linguistically, a real rift occurred much later,
if it occurred at all. The arbitrariness is strong in that map.

 

[jpr123]

But instead of having a 'German' culture as an accepted culture they would have 'Dutch' which would be, not quiet totally ruin any ambitions in Germany but might tip the scale since culture unions do not give a penalty for for cultures in the same union.

But they dont have german as an accepted culture anyway, they start with dutch and flemish as accepted cultures. Changing these to a seperate group to German would have absolutely no effect on Burgandy.

 

[jdrou]

But they dont have german as an accepted culture anyway, they start with dutch and flemish as accepted cultures. Changing these to a seperate group to German would have absolutely no effect on Burgandy.

More accurately, there is no such thing as 'German' culture, only a German culture group and accepting one germanic culture has no affect on Burgundy's relations with other germanic cultures. Making Dutch/Flemish a separate group would make it more difficult for German countries to expand into the Low Countries as well as making it more difficult for Dutch/Flemish countries to expand into Germany.

 

[unmerged(84079)]

Which seems reasonable enough to me

 

[jdrou]

Which seems reasonable enough to me

Possibly, but that doesn't sound like the effect he is trying to achieve.

 

[Doomdark]

As of HTTT there is an event command to turn a nation into a cultural union without it being listed in the culture file.
"culture_group_union = [name of culture group]" will make a country the union of a culture group no matter which country that is. I'm not sure if this also means that the old restrictions to the culture group of your actual primary culture have been lifted as well. It would seem logical that at least the restriction to just one cultural union has been lifted as the new event effect code would function only sporadically otherwise.

The "culture_group_union" thing has the same effect, but is a separate (more flexible) system.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Does that mean that using culture_group_union I can make a country the union of several culture groups?

 

[Doomdark]

Does that mean that using culture_group_union I can make a country the union of several culture groups?

Max two, with both the regular union tag and "culture_group_union".

 

[Trin Tragula]

Nice!