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Will cultural conversion be in game ?

Lets say Spain takes a french province and manage to hold it for 200 years, should the province be assimilated and get Spanish culture after a while ?

I think the chance should be there. On a scale of 50 years, no... on a scale of 200 years, definitly.
 

Brownbeard

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Took Austria a millenia to get Kaernten from Karantanian/Slovenian to Austrian.

Why bother. Cultural conversion is more of an exception than a rule. And each exception in history was part of massacres, genocide, oppression and other stuff not suited for computer games or this board.
 

Lurken

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That would be kinda sweet. As in CK, but is rarely seen.
 

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This is semi-related to religion. I believe this also should be Vicky like, to a point. That is to say the population have a percentage of Culture.

As a side note the way natives are assimilated in EU2 after religious conversion should be based in some way with the host countries policies. But 100% conversion should never happen it should be a slow conversion over time. I like the way Civ IV does culture, but we don't want to copy them right ;)

To ease coder and games a formula should be worked out that uses the current owner and previous owners. Maybe, like my other idea about resources, take the top 3 cultures and track them. For example is colony A was colonized by Spain. We would have Natives + Spanish. This number would change over the months via new colonists and natural cultural conversion due to influence. Now consider a 50 years later the English buy this colony (I wish ;) ) There is now three cultures. Now the Natives are a small percentage and the English are the new minority. I think you get the point. :p
 

unmerged(2833)

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Brownbeard said:
Took Austria a millenia to get Kaernten from Karantanian/Slovenian to Austrian.

Why bother. Cultural conversion is more of an exception than a rule. And each exception in history was part of massacres, genocide, oppression and other stuff not suited for computer games or this board.
For me, its the most lasting accomplishment you can get in EU 2. I mean, if you get colonial empire, you know it will crumble in XX century anyway, but if you manage to spread your culture, it will last much longer.
 

joriandrake

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Brownbeard said:
Took Austria a millenia to get Kaernten from Karantanian/Slovenian to Austrian.

Why bother. Cultural conversion is more of an exception than a rule. And each exception in history was part of massacres, genocide, oppression and other stuff not suited for computer games or this board.
Exception? It has always happened, and it IS happening now, not only with brute force. And why is it not suiting for board/games?
We are talking about Historical games from medieval and classical times. THIS is the time for such events, and it HAS to be included! :mad:
 

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Well, what cultural conversions happened in the time period in Europe?

Turkization of Asia Minor and Thrace(very bloody)
Expulsion of the Moors(same thing)

Any other example of major cultural change in Europe?
 

joriandrake

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Brownbeard said:
Well, what cultural conversions happened in the time period in Europe?

Turkization of Asia Minor and Thrace(very bloody)
Expulsion of the Moors(same thing)

Any other example of major cultural change in Europe?
A LOT of in Hungary, the occitans in French, some of Bohemia's to German, scottish/celtic/english, In Savoy french/italian, lot of other ones in Iberia, ect...
 

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jorian said:
Exception? It has always happened, and it IS happening now, not only with brute force. And why is it not suiting for board/games?
We are talking about Historical games from medieval and classical times. THIS is the time for such events, and it HAS to be included! :mad:
Could you please enlighten my memory about colossal cultural changes in Europe during 1450-1780s?..
 

joriandrake

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Herr Doctor said:
Could you please enlighten my memory about colossal cultural changes in Europe during 1450-1780s?..
Danish in scandinavia to Swedish? ;)
Lot of territories in east to russian?

ECT...
 

Herr Doctor

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jorian said:
A LOT of in Hungary, the occitans in French, some of Bohemia's to German, scottish/celtic/english, In Savoy french/italian, lot of other ones in Iberia, ect...
So… Occitans are still in France. There are just nations formed since then in Europe, but still you can see Britons, Gasconains or other regional ethnic indetities… Scots are not Celtic, they are Saxons. The Highalnders are Gaelic. And what the trouble with Savoy and Hungary? Are we are speaking about nobles or upper classes, representing major population?

The only good example you made is the Bohemians.
 

Hallsten

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jorian said:
Danish in scandinavia to Swedish? ;)
Burn the heretic! :mad: :D



Cultural conversion is tricky business, it's hard to see any real triggers besides genocide and I seriously doubt that will be modelled directly in the game.
 

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jorian said:
A LOT of in Hungary, the occitans in French, some of Bohemia's to German, scottish/celtic/english, In Savoy french/italian, lot of other ones in Iberia, ect...

What exactly happened in Hungary? Some Croats fled to Burgenland and Pressburg from eastern Croatia and Bosnia, and some Germans settled along the Danube during the reign of Maria Theresa, and thats about it. I wouldnt call either a major cultural change. Magyar, Slovak and Romanian ratios did not change much before Kossuth and Szechenyi, and thats well outside of game era.

Czech/German balance in Bohemia did not change much between middle ages and the end of WWI

Scottish/Gaelic is an evolutionary thing, not a cultural conversion. Pikachu evolves into Raichu, he does not turn into Charmander.

Occitans are French, same like Castillians, Catalans and Portuguese are Iberian. Its about culture, not nationalism. And the game takes place in an era where nationalism is limited to countries you can count on one hand.
 

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jorian said:
Danish in scandinavia to Swedish? ;)
Lot of territories in east to russian?

ECT...
Well, Scandinavians were very closer in cultural aspect, so there were mainly sentiments about the Danish monarchy itself in Skaane, not the fact that the Danes here were “oppressed” in cultural/”national” sense.

In case of Russia, these cultures are considered “native”, so they would disappear in some way with EUIII for sure with colonization.
 

unmerged(2833)

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Hungary, with Banat, i presume.

Bohemia, nuff said.

Silesia, Pomerania and other former western Polish territories.

Western Ukraine and Belarus.

Eastern Ukraine and Belarus. Hell, almost whole of Ukraine, except northern and central part.

Much of Russia.

And thats only that part of Europe (granted, this one have seen most of such changes)
 

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Hallsten said:
Burn the heretic! :mad: :D



Cultural conversion is tricky business, it's hard to see any real triggers besides genocide and I seriously doubt that will be modelled directly in the game.
There is the option of moving other cultures in other provinces, this happened a lot, here in hungary too
Also possible to 'educate' other cultures into yours.
And the change of State nationality is also OK for this.
...and as you stated: there is always genocide. :p
 

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DarthMaur said:
Hungary, with Banat, i presume.

Bohemia, nuff said.

Silesia, Pomerania and other former western Polish territories.

Western Ukraine and Belarus.

Eastern Ukraine and Belarus. Hell, almost whole of Ukraine, except northern and central part.

Much of Russia.

And thats only that part of Europe (granted, this one have seen most of such changes)
Thanks for help against these 'moralist warriors' :D
 

Herr Doctor

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DarthMaur said:
Western Ukraine and Belarus.

Eastern Ukraine and Belarus. Hell, almost whole of Ukraine, except northern and central part.
And what happened with major population culture here in 1450-1780? The nobles started speaking Polish, some later Russian. So, what this changed in cultural aspect for my country?
 

Skarion

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Cultural conversion is tricky business, it's hard to see any real triggers besides genocide and I seriously doubt that will be modelled directly in the game.

No, if you get an upper class which is comming from the conquering nation, if you got an education system of the conquering nation and if you use the language of the conquering nation, then you soon got a rather nice cultural conversion.

This was the main lines how Sweden transfered the provinces which it conquered until Johan Baptiste came to power, and was a larger success.

IF it was practiced in Norway too, I am rather sure Norway would be a Swedish speaking Swedish province.

Genocide was used often, but I don't think it have never been a such great conversion as the ones who survive will remember their heritage more clearly then and be more hatefull against the new culture.

Therefore I still consider the best way to simulate true cultural conversions by having the possibilities to control imigrations within the nation (Which was used often in Sweden and in England atleast) there you can put in the culture values you want in each province and then see them breed and finally taking control over the province with a small minority which still is the native culture (And will likely disapear with time).
 
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