Cultural conversion in EU2?

[unmerged(34070)]

How about a mechanism inverse and similar to nationalism.
When nationalism becomes 0 a new "count" begins, with a percentage chance (checked yearly) of culture change.
This way after 40 years of occupation you'd have a 1%/year chance of cultural change, increasing by 1% every 10 more years.

Good one! Very good! Then the chance is present, but not especially big. But if you as France holds f. i Kent from f. i. 1452-1799, they would have a fairly large chance of having become French somewhere along the way. 40 years is also an excellent number because it roughly represents a generation, something that makes a good starting point.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

@sherlock: Adding new concept like that would adding completely new feauture into EU2, which is unlikely to happen. Maybe EU3.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

To answer Sherlock's question:
The nationalism is a set thing, which operates only for 30 years and cannot be used in the triggering of events. There is no method useable in event triggers to refer to the time a province has been under control, except for the kludgy ways referred to earlier (i.e. a seperate event many years earlier triggering or enabling a conversion event later).

 

[unmerged(34070)]

To answer Sherlock's question:
The nationalism is a set thing, which operates only for 30 years and cannot be used in the triggering of events. There is no method useable in event triggers to refer to the time a province has been under control, except for the kludgy ways referred to earlier (i.e. a seperate event many years earlier triggering or enabling a conversion event later).

But isn`t it possible that you could fire an event called naturalization that can fire randomly in all the provinces that`s not of your culture, and has no nationalism (has been owned for 30 years+). This event increases revolt risk by +1 or +2 in the province in question) and f.i. 40 years later a new event changes the culture of the province and removes the revolt risk. Kind of a Dutch provinces light.

Then it would happen from time to time, but be quite rare.

 

[unmerged(23556)]

i think the cultural convertion wouldn't be fun. then you would have forinstance a ukrainean bunch of provinses in ukraine and then one in france, one in thailand etc. + the cultural convertion would be so slow that maby you could get to convert some of your earliest provinses into a nother culture at the end of the game but i dont think you can change a culture that faster(we have been apart of sweden for ages and yet we only have some similarities whit swedish culture. we still arent swedish)

 

[unmerged(25696)]

But isn`t it possible that you could fire an event called naturalization that can fire randomly in all the provinces that`s not of your culture, and has no nationalism (has been owned for 30 years+). This event increases revolt risk by +1 or +2 in the province in question) and f.i. 40 years later a new event changes the culture of the province and removes the revolt risk. Kind of a Dutch provinces light.

Then it would happen from time to time, but be quite rare.

No, there's no way to code such triggers at the present time. Like Sheridan said, there's no method to count time, apart of making entire sets of events (good luck ). And without such a method, how would you count those 40 years ?

And I don't even think it's possible to include RR or nationalism in the triggers (and I have doubts about culture).

 

[Taelyn]

But isn`t it possible that you could fire an event called naturalization that can fire randomly in all the provinces that`s not of your culture, and has no nationalism (has been owned for 30 years+). This event increases revolt risk by +1 or +2 in the province in question) and f.i. 40 years later a new event changes the culture of the province and removes the revolt risk. Kind of a Dutch provinces light.

Then it would happen from time to time, but be quite rare.

Actually checking Havard's Bible, I see that there is no way to trigger off of nationalism or revolt risk. I'll probably add a stability trigger to my migration event because that's the only trigger that's really appropriate.


And yeah, I settled on Persecution for my other event title, though I still think the way that Paradox represents the genocide of Native Americans (send a missionary, they all convert to your culture, yeah!) is wrong and dishonest, but I guess Europeans would like to avoid those brutal truths in their computer games (and I can see why the European laws against genocide in games are in place, I've seen web sites of some of the more disturbing games nuts in America have made). Entire islands in the Carribean had their entire population destroyed by the Europeans through slave labor, disease, and outright murder. From the Incas to the Hurons, entire civilizations were wiped out. I honestly can't see how you could call it anything besides genocide. That's what it was.

There, I wrote it, the end. I hope my conscience will stop bothering me now.

 

[henrikhka]

Of course you have similarities, cause you haven't been influenced by another culture, if you had been under russian rule in the time when you weren't under swedish rule, i'm pretty sure that you would not be as much like the swedish.

 

[saskganesh]

As Johan, Havard, and others have said about 1. x 10^100000000000000 times now, Paradox will NEVER release a game that incorporates genocide.

Balls. EU1 encouraged genocide. sending a colonist to an < 5000 pop province would change religion (no culture in that game). so the smart player would encourage constant revolts in wrong relegion provinces to bring pop under the threshold, and then colonise/convert.

 

[unmerged(18043)]

Balls. EU1 encouraged genocide. sending a colonist to an < 5000 pop province would change religion (no culture in that game). so the smart player would encourage constant revolts in wrong relegion provinces to bring pop under the threshold, and then colonise/convert.

There is a differance between the intentions of the designers and the 'accepted' smart moves when dealing with something. Now if that tip was printed by Johan or Paradox itself that would be a different story.

All in all I don't think Genocide to the level that Paradox is conecerned with is represented inwhere in their games. The Conquest of NA was simply one group beating another by useing their knowledge. It's very abstract in Eu2 as to how you conquest so I think they do no harm.

 

[billiard]

PC on the PC? It's just a game - no actual human beings will be harmed in the making (or playing) of this computer game - unless maybe your laptop falls into the bathtub, or you drop it out your third story window, etc. By changing written history (and that is precisely what ignoring historical fact or glossing over facts that may make some uncomfortable) or preventing sales of memorabilia (it's just symbolism) some find offensive we may actually be encouraging the very actions we are attempting to prevent. Make a law that people can't buy a WWII SS dagger on line, and there are quite a few people who will then want to have one, whereas if we just left things alone ...

That being said, Persecution is probably a better term in EU2 anyway, in that there were few true government planned and executed genocides (the Albigensians being an example of the latter, but that was based on religion, not "culture").

 

[unmerged(25609)]

i think the cultural convertion wouldn't be fun. then you would have forinstance a ukrainean bunch of provinses in ukraine and then one in france, one in thailand etc. + the cultural convertion would be so slow that maby you could get to convert some of your earliest provinses into a nother culture at the end of the game but i dont think you can change a culture that faster(we have been apart of sweden for ages and yet we only have some similarities whit swedish culture. we still arent swedish)

Darn right. Diversity is more fun, anyway. And the world is a more diverse place than many people think. Heck, in France you can find Bretons & Alsatians & Basques ... I find the Hapsburg multi-cultural empire, warts and all, more representative, more historically accurate than the monocultural monolithic states you guys are describing / asking for. It just wasn't that way. And perhaps this is just a Canadian's cultural insensitivity speaking, but .... it shouldn't be that way now. Vive la difference!

 

[G-Klav]

Well, the events would be historically accurate - for instance, there is still a large (1 million + ) Turkish minority in Bulgaria, and there are still some Germans in Transylvania.
There are hardly any Gaelic people left in Wales anymore, and there are more English than Gaelic people in Scotland and on Ireland (ok, they're not English, but that's the language they're speaking).
The Gaelic people in Brittany are way fewer than 400 years ago, they've become increasingly more French.
And we, who live in Skåne certainly aren't Danish anymore. There were a Danish majority in Holstein from the 15th century until Prussia annexed it during the 19th century (the province would've been scandinavian during those years, gamewise).
I could just go on and on and on...

 

[unmerged(20077)]

I don't see why shifting cultures would cost you money? You can't pay to change people's ways. You can either allow them to fluctuate over time, or you can ruthlessly exterminate and ban people's cultural ways, but you can't just buy it.

I dunno, if someone offered me a generous grant to start speaking Norwegian, I'd give it some serious thought...

 

[unmerged(18043)]

What about Instead of Changing Cultures having your country adopt the culture?

Think along these lines Most nations are not oppressive of other cultures, so if a certain percentage say 25-33% of your provinces are of another culture after a long time >100 years then your country could gain the addition culture as it's default?

Instead of changing the Province of Flanders to German if Brandenburg has it for 200 hundred years simply have the Dutch culture added to the Brandenburg Cultures making Brandenburg have Dutch and German.

I think that would be a better way since most countries have more than 1 culture to begin with.

What do you think?

 

[unmerged(34070)]

I think I have the solution. Adding a random event that can potentially fire for every country in the game:

Naturalization: random -1 province converts to state culture.

Is this one possible to implement, or do we have to face the evil spirit of hard-coding again?

 

[unmerged(22702)]

i would have thought rather than having the provinces change cultures a better approach would be for your nation to gain the culture after a period of acceptance (possibly also with the addition of sliders, like religion, as to how each culture is dealt with)

Think of England and Brittany, after an early DA, in reality certain gaelic influences would enter into Britain, and likewise certain french and anglo-saxon ones into Brittany (same goes for Wales/Ireland/Scotland)...............

The provinces should not lose their own individual identity, rather the nation/growing empire except their individuality and reap the benefits of being a multi-cultural society.................

In the time frames being talked about above for a 'conversion' then the +1 revolt risk is largely irrelevant anyway due to all the add-ons, governors/legal counsels etc...........

Now if your talking about in excaberating problems with a different religion well then your into a whole different ball game.............

Spot on in my view

 

[unmerged(23556)]

But if you can get a nother state culture after a couple of years just think of how many cultures you would have if you are trying world conquest.maby you should get a new stateculture only if you own all provinses that have the spesifick culture

 

[unmerged(34070)]

The reason I gave this suggestion, is that I`m fairly sure it is possible and fairly easy to implement. If it fires about as often as the religious conversion event (never had it fire for more than five times during a grand campaign), it should keep the number of provinces converting quite minimal (and since it does not require province to have other culture already, chances are that in most cases it will fire in a province already of the countrys culture).

I think this solution would give a lot to the game without changing the game balance significantly.

You could also have a similar one for converting captured provinces to cores (see conquered provinces becoming cores thread) which functions in exactly the same way.

Protectorate: addcore random province -1

I think this two events would bring a lot of variation to the game. Personally I am a fan of randomizers, and I think one of the most fun aspect of this game is to mess around with history

Maybe you could also have a random removecore event (Loose claim) for core provinces of yours which are owned by other countries. I`m`not sure if this is possible though. The two others however I`m 97,6 % certain of.

 

[unmerged(22702)]

thats just it it certainly shouldn't happen quickly, certainly not 'a couple of years' but you should i think have the option of whether you want to accomodate a culture or not?

just think of history and if Britain had been more accomodating to the 13 US States would they have revolted?

And yes if you are a global power then as a nation you will have lots of cultural influences