Cultural buildings disappearing is irritating as hell

[jorishilhorst]

This is not the only thread for this, but as this has been a problem for over 4 years I figured it is worth bringing up again. Can this be addressed in some patch please?
It is annoying when a ruler switches (specifically if you don't control the culture of your heir) to see 1000s worth of coin wasted on buildings. Perhaps on coronation give us the choice to keep the culture of our heir or insta (before inheritance) switch cultures? Usually the culture of the heir is the one we'd like to maintain anyway.

Right now it simply isn't worth building cultural buildings because of this, the investment (10 * 100+200+400 gold for upgrades in all counties) is just too big when they may only last a generation. So if this is works as designed, then the design is flawed. Please either let us stay or adopt our parents culture on coronation or give those buildings some resilience. If they disappear 1 year down the line it would give me a chance to keep the culture (if I have access to it).

Not having the option to keep such an investment is frustrating, so anti-fun.

 

[Ferrumius]

It rately happens to me but sure, it is irritating. There should be some kind of refund or provincial modifier to building new ones cheaper and quicker. Or just keep the old ones and later it can be replaced with a small fee if we choose to do so. It might provide interesting combinations

 

[BaronIronmaggot]

IMO, cultural buildings should be tied to the province culture.

 

[Yeekim]

Agreed.
It might make more sense to tie these buildings to province culture, rather than ruler culture?
EDIT: x-post

 

[jorishilhorst]

IMO, cultural buildings should be tied to the province culture.

That would work for me. Culture in provinces doesn't switch too often for it to be rage inducing and from a roleplay perspective it makes sense too

 

[DocDesastro]

I would suggest you buy level 1-4 and when province culture changes, the building changes accordingly to new culture. See it as military 'infrastructure already built'. Otherwise I cannot imagine either, why a level 4 hillfort will magically transform either to level 2 city walls upon shedding tribal status and becoming formal. A fortified house suddenly expanding to city walls? Really? Logical as a bag of wet kitten but in the game.

 

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

I would suggest you buy level 1-4 and when province culture changes, the building changes accordingly to new culture. See it as military 'infrastructure already built'. Otherwise I cannot imagine either, why a level 4 hillfort will magically transform either to level 2 city walls or keep 2 upon shedding tribal status. Logical as a bag of wet kitten but in the game.

I totally agree with this. No need for refund and your work isn't lost (not just money, but time and opportunity cost as well)

 

[Narvait]

IMO, cultural buildings should be tied to the province culture.

You could make arguments for both.
1) when I conquer province I might want locals to train in my way. Especially if they had not built any cultural buildings of their own
2) when I return to my grandpa's Duchy who is of different culture, then their buildings should not magically dissappear.

I guess the right way is to only tie the BUILDING of cultural buildings to ruler's culture. This makes sense since what does Norse ruler know about how Hussar building should be built or upgrade.
But if he has conquered/i nherited province with developed Hussar traditions, why not use those horsemen?

I am not sure of historical examples, but I could find logic in keeping cultural buildings (military tradition) in province even it changes culture.

 

[treb]

A good historical example is the english making extensive use of welsh longbows and longbowmen and adapting it to infamous effect on the french in the early hundred years war

 

[DocDesastro]

I guess the right way is to only tie the BUILDING of cultural buildings to ruler's culture. This makes sense since what does Norse ruler know about how Hussar building should be built or upgrade.
But if he has conquered/i nherited province with developed Hussar traditions, why not use those horsemen?

I am not sure of historical examples, but I could find logic in keeping cultural buildings (military tradition) in province even it changes culture.

Then, however you should be able to do different training grounds for each of the 6 branches of troops offering a general bonus for those troops raised in that holding while adding a certain number of troops (not more than the barracks type buildings). This would remove the jumbled-up magical disappearing of buildings while retaining a certain use. I would additionally suggest, that you might create culture-specific RETINUES once you own certain provinces of other culture. In that way you simulate the adoption and preservation of military traditions.
E.g. as english king you have what? Huscarls? And as Irish Gallowglass? And you can make whole retinue units out of these with special tactics. Now you conquer a welsh province and may get longbow retinues from now on. Make the game count time. Maybe 50 years, maybe 100 and make that retinue type a permanent addition to your realm's choice of troops for retinues (militatry tradition again) as long as you keep welsh culture provinces in the realm for that time ticking.

 

[treb]

One thing id like to see is tactics being decoupled from culture and commanders developing them in battle while commanding certain troops and passing them to other commanders as they participate in battles on the same side.

 

[Cymsdale]

I agree with the developers' well reasoned arguments toward this issue.

 

[Dahoota]

How many times do people flip cultures? Seriously, I might flip once in an entire play through, if at all. For me this is just the cost of doing business on the rare occasions that I do actually change. I often make it a point to actively maintaining my Initial culture all game, especially if it's rare or a minority one.

I agree that it makes more sense to tie it to the local culture, no the ruler though.

 

[Voy]

I agree with the developers' well reasoned arguments toward this issue.

What is that then?

 

[choffman0710]

What is that then?

Just wondering what are the development stated reasoning for this?

 

[Cymsdale]

Just wondering what are the development stated reasoning for this?

It's a joke. The developers have spent 4 years saying shit about this. I don't expect that to ever change.

 

[Dracko81]

It's a joke. The developers have spent 4 years saying shit about this. I don't expect that to ever change.

Probably because no matter what they do, people will complain that it should be a different way. Leave it and people want it done 5 different ways. Implement one suggestion and have everyone else complain their preference wasn't chosen.

In the long run, yes you should rebuild cultural buildings in your demesne. It isn't like you can re-purpose an archery range for training knights. You need to rebuild it. While you could argue that Heavy Infantry is Heavy Infantry, the easiest way to deal with it is to rebuild all. Additions of more conditions will create more calculations in the game, affecting performance.

But my heir was the wrong culture when he inherited? Should of planned that succession better, it's not up to the devs to make a mechanic that holds your hand through your failures at realm management.

 

[choffman0710]

It's a joke. The developers have spent 4 years saying shit about this. I don't expect that to ever change.

It's one of the things I'm missing from ck2+ while they are updating it. They don't disappear on ck2+

 

[choffman0710]

Probably because no matter what they do, people will complain that it should be a different way. Leave it and people want it done 5 different ways. Implement one suggestion and have everyone else complain their preference wasn't chosen.

In the long run, yes you should rebuild cultural buildings in your demesne. It isn't like you can re-purpose an archery range for training knights. You need to rebuild it. While you could argue that Heavy Infantry is Heavy Infantry, the easiest way to deal with it is to rebuild all. Additions of more conditions will create more calculations in the game, affecting performance.

But my heir was the wrong culture when he inherited? Should of planned that succession better, it's not up to the devs to make a mechanic that holds your hand through your failures at realm management.

I'm not sure why it should matter that your a different culture anyway. The building was still built ... it already exists ... did my new Welsh heir destroy my anglo-Saxon building? Once it's built it's built. You know?

 

[Dracko81]

I'm not sure why it should matter that your a different culture anyway. The building was still built ... it already exists ... did my new Welsh heir destroy my anglo-Saxon building? Once it's built it's built. You know?

There is currently no way to destroy a building. Your new ruler wants to build new cultural buildings. It is the only way that this can happen.