Crusades should not just randomly end for stupid reasons

[Riekopo]

Crusades now are a big ordeal. Lots of planning and preparing. Half of my Crusades just randomly end because the "ruler gets deposed" which actually means he got captured and died in a dungeon, or died of a random plague disease even though there's no plague in his territory, or his heir got captured and it caused a 50% War Score boost, and other dumb reasons.

I'm so sick of this broken shit. Crusades shouldn't be linked to the fate of the current ruler. It's not a war against a single individual or dynasty or country. It's a holy war against an entire religion with the goal of capturing a certain region of territory.

I personally love the "Pope has decided crusade just isn't his "thing" anymore and calls it off" esp at 98% warscore. Or the cheapest cop out; "Great news! (insert crusade target here) has converted to christianity!" and then they call the crusade off.

I'm currently playing as a Pagan African trying to get the Holy Fury achievement, so I decided to conquer Aquitaine to get myself a proper juicy crusade targets. I've gotten the 'Crusade incoming' warning three times so far but they never seem to actually manifest into a crusade; at some point the Catholics apparently just decide to quit things in the planning stage. The last actual Crusade that actually fired veered off into Constantinople instead for spirits know whatever reason.

I was doing a Shattered World (individual counties) playthrough in 776 as a Christian and as we all know Christianity in shattered world gets thoroughly donkey-fucked for a good couple centuries if they manage to get their stuff together at all, and I learned very quickly not to put anything into the warchest no earlier than like 20 days before the official start of the Crusade.

 

[Blackwhitecavias]

Crusades now are a big ordeal. Lots of planning and preparing. Half of my Crusades just randomly end because the "ruler gets deposed" which actually means he got captured and died in a dungeon, or died of a random plague disease even though there's no plague in his territory, or his heir got captured and it caused a 50% War Score boost, and other dumb reasons.

I'm so sick of this broken shit. Crusades shouldn't be linked to the fate of the current ruler. It's not a war against a single individual or dynasty or country. It's a holy war against an entire religion with the goal of capturing a certain region of territory.

I will agree with this, the ruler changing shouldn't be a problem if the new guy has the same religion as the old one.

I personally love the "Pope has decided crusade just isn't his "thing" anymore and calls it off" esp at 98% warscore. Or the cheapest cop out; "Great news! (insert crusade target here) has converted to christianity!" and then they call the crusade off.

A ruler converting to Christianity should definitely have an effect and cause the crusade to be called off, but in my opinion at least a share of the war chest should then be divided among the major participants as well as the converted ruler (so he can actually survive in a realm that has a different religion), but that the converted ruler shouldn't be able to convert back to his old religion for at least 10 or so years.

I'm currently playing as a Pagan African trying to get the Holy Fury achievement, so I decided to conquer Aquitaine to get myself a proper juicy crusade targets. I've gotten the 'Crusade incoming' warning three times so far but they never seem to actually manifest into a crusade; at some point the Catholics apparently just decide to quit things in the planning stage. The last actual Crusade that actually fired veered off into Constantinople instead for spirits know whatever reason.

I was doing a Shattered World (individual counties) playthrough in 776 as a Christian and as we all know Christianity in shattered world gets thoroughly donkey-fucked for a good couple centuries if they manage to get their stuff together at all, and I learned very quickly not to put anything into the warchest no earlier than like 20 days before the official start of the Crusade.

Crusades not firing if the strength of the crusaders isn't high enough is WAD and makes sense in my opinion as the pope (usually) wouldn't just send some of the more zealous Christians to their dead if they stood no chance at all.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Crusades now are a big ordeal. Lots of planning and preparing. Half of my Crusades just randomly end because the "ruler gets deposed" which actually means he got captured and died in a dungeon, or died of a random plague disease even though there's no plague in his territory,

So there was no general outbreak in his provinces. The ruler might still have caught a virus somewhere and died. Especially if on a military campaign.

or his heir got captured and it caused a 50% War Score boost, and other dumb reasons.

I'm so sick of this broken shit. Crusades shouldn't be linked to the fate of the current ruler. It's not a war against a single individual or dynasty or country. It's a holy war against an entire religion with the goal of capturing a certain region of territory.

Look at history. Barbarossa drowns in a river -and most of his followers go home with only a tiny fraction continuing to the holy land.
His successor Heinrich VI. died before even arriving in the Levant and the conflict between his successors meant that most of the crusade returned home.
Depending on the country feudal law would often mean that when your liege lord dies you have to get your fief confirmed from the successor - if you do not show up you might forfeit the fief or lose it to someone who is at the court of the new ruler.

I personally love the "Pope has decided crusade just isn't his "thing" anymore and calls it off" esp at 98% warscore. Or the cheapest cop out; "Great news! (insert crusade target here) has converted to christianity!" and then they call the crusade off.

I'm currently playing as a Pagan African trying to get the Holy Fury achievement, so I decided to conquer Aquitaine to get myself a proper juicy crusade targets. I've gotten the 'Crusade incoming' warning three times so far but they never seem to actually manifest into a crusade; at some point the Catholics apparently just decide to quit things in the planning stage. The last actual Crusade that actually fired veered off into Constantinople instead for spirits know whatever reason.

1204

 

[Poliut]

And then there's "the Crusade was canceled because the largest Catholic force is fighting a civil war"

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

If the claimant dies the CB gets canceled. That's just normal game mechanics in play.

The entire goal of Crusades is to get more converts to secure the holy land. The Pope does not care whether this is from recent converts or France. They're Catholic all the same, so it's a victory for Christianity, even if it's a loss for your ambitions. Thing is, your ambitions are not the wargoal here.

 

[MentziaIII]

It seems to me a much bigger problem than any of this , is the inability , typically , to do anything about infidels or heretics until they roll right up to your border.

--- And then it is practically impossible to do anything.

Most prominently , a crusade is called for the Holy Land , and it succeeds . But then the Kingdom of Jerusalem is certainly doomed to fail . Why ? It is out of diplomatic range. Or , even if it is in range , even if the Kingdom is getting gang raped , " join war " simply isn't available as an option. Even though containing the infidels over there , instead of in your yard , you might think would be a compelling interest to both of you --- to the BOTH of you --- given that he is being gang raped in his yard. Duh.

At the very least , you would think that any ruler of that religion would have a persistent interest in keeping that holy site out of enemy hands.

I suppose the existence of not a single mercenary fleet in early game has some historic rationale ? But in early game typically even a relatively rich kingdom has a fleet of maybe ten boats. Consequently you simply cannot get to the British Isles with any practical force , and the pagan Vikings overrunning the British Isles is no minor development.
If they do , then the British Isles become a springboard for the pagans to hammer down all of Christian Europe , anywhere . Not to mention that under those circumstances the Viking raiders will then multiply like roaches.

Another example ; Say you are King of Burgundy . The Moslems in Iberia are at some distance away , and typically again , " Join war " is not available.
Well , Sunnis in Andalusia with 10 ,000 troops isn't such a big deal.
But when Sunni Moslems roll into Aquitaine , now they are a 50,000 troop - problem.

 

[knppel]

Jerusalem's diplomatic reach was screwed up in the last map workover.
I've done several runs as crusader King this patch- when I started as french count, and eventually made up a demesne in Northern France for the dynasty pre-crusade, I got to find out the diplomatic-range-distance now seriously cuts through France- I was able to negotiate and make an alliance with my Uncle, the Duke of Bourbon, but was unable to negotiate with my father, the Duke of Upper Brittany, due to him being out of range.

As for the matter with cancelled crusades, I've seen this a lot too, mostly in earlier game starts, but in 1066 too. While the reasons for this often seem logical (Not enough christian lords interested in crusading, or the Pope being ousted from Rome by the Emperor) It gets weird when the christian world actually prepares a crusade, only to have the Kaiser screw it up for Christianity just because- notto mention the frustrating feeling when you have contributed to the war cheast, and moved your armies in time, only to arrive at the target destination and be told your money is gone, your maneuver was for naught and you'll also lose 100 piety because the AI trolled you into crusading alone.

 

[Guthix]

I'm gonna have to say that the rulers converting at 98% warscore is not only working as intended, but is a very likely historical possibility.

Moreover, I consider it a preferable outcome in most circumstances because it gives you a potentially massive new ally (Abbasid, Seljuq, Fatimid, etc.) as opposed to a potentially dead-witin-seconds crusader state. Not to mention the role-playing potential of trying to maintain the Catholic conversion of Abbasid from the outside.

 

[Crimson Grog]

I'm gonna have to say that the rulers converting at 98% warscore is not only working as intended, but is a very likely historical possibility.

Moreover, I consider it a preferable outcome in most circumstances because it gives you a potentially massive new ally (Abbasid, Seljuq, Fatimid, etc.) as opposed to a potentially dead-witin-seconds crusader state. Not to mention the role-playing potential of trying to maintain the Catholic conversion of Abbasid from the outside.

I agree as long as the war chest still gets divided up somehow.