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Logos88

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I think the game is getting very well. I'm just a bit disappointed with the fact that stability wont be in the game. I know this is a character driven game, but still, stability is one of the great PI games concept and I think it would make much sense in CK II. With the focus on character opinions they can make the mistake of forgetting about other medieval realities. the Medieval Era is a time of great social stratification, every order has is one flavor and particularities, and all contributed to the scenario of medieval life. the CK way of representing the orders in each province was far from perfect, and what PI is doing with the baronies and cities and castles e good, but still I would like a sense of how stable my kingdom is, or how the people living in the cities feels, what are their interests, instead of stability depending in my relation with those people depending only on my relation with the city mayor. Also stability would be important in the way that it was a measure of what kind of events, good or bad your realm should get.

i'm all pro the characters depth that has been shown so far in CKII but I would like a court simulator if that means forgetting the realm simulator aspects that were already in CK. An ideal mechanism would be the creation of Courts (don't know how to express in English, I'm referring to the assembly of the various orders or states in the realm to present the king various issues of internal and external politics.) please don't abstract that much the other Orders of Medieval Europe, just to do a perfect High nobility simulator. I would want to see peasants revolts due to tributes, I would like to see the burghers ascension, getting more favor near the king, even lending him money, the regular clergy, even the low nobility asking for more prerogatives etc.

just my opinion
 

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-I would just like to say the visual quality of the DD video's is great.
-The stress the game is taking towards Characters is sweet and the new opinion system seems to be a great way to mod the feudal system.
 

enf91

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Question:

The video mentions something like "if you try to kill my sister I'll hate you. -100 opinion." What if you hate your sister? Then trying to kill her would be a service to you.
 

GrapeApe

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Oh and the character portraits look AWESOME. Especially knowing that (as was said in previous DDs) that characters' portraits age over time :)

I looked at the lists of vassals and apparently you can also tell burghers, nobles and clerics apart from their looks too? VERY nice. I can already see myself sneering at the pathetic look of helmet-less Burgomaster Heinrich... "What does this wretched worm want from me? He's not even noble!" :D

Eager to see the womens' portraits!!

These are all little touches that go a long way, imo. Nice attention to detail by Paradox and I think it will be very helpful to game immersion.
 

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These video diaries are great PI! Keep 'em coming!

Now we can start picking the video apart frame by frame :p

Yeah ... it gives many more "screenshots" to look at :D
 

RedRooster81

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I agree with Logos that there should be the social aspect, not just what your vassals and family and so forth think of you but also the rest of your subjects; all those artisans, stable boys, beggars in the streets, and the masses of peasants.

Logos also brings up the assemblies of the important people in the realm, what in English we usually call "the estates," after the French term. Every province and kingdom had some sort of collective body like this, which evolved into the English Parliament, the Holy Roman Empire's Reichstag, and you could say the College of Cardinals in the Papal States. This should be represented somehow, aside from electing the next monarch in the case of elective monarchies.
 

Logos88

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One thing is intriguing me... After seeing this DD and also another Sengoku DD where some game code were shown, I get the pleasant surprise that characters behavior will be attached to individuals traits and maybe skills (martial, diplomacy, intrigue etc) So, can we actually expect the AI to behave according to characters personalities?

I don't know absolutely nothing about programming but wouldn't something like this be revolutionary in terms of gaming AI?
If this is true, and we will have AI more related to personalities instead of just choosing the difficult level of the game, I take my hat to PI!! :)
 

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I think the game is getting very well. I'm just a bit disappointed with the fact that stability wont be in the game. I know this is a character driven game, but still, stability is one of the great PI games concept and I think it would make much sense in CK II.

Wow, interesting. I am the exact opposite; I found it to be the biggest crutch in Paradox games. In my mind the stability of the realm would never be universal, unless you possess a single barony, and unlikely there either. There are always the haves and the have-nots, and, more importantly, those who would exploit them. Provided there are characters to represent the many diverse interests of your realm, then all the mechanisms are in place to reflect stability.

The game is looking excellent I may add.

Craven... love that trait.
 

Gwyn ap Nud

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Thoughts as I listen, Pausing at Important Moments: In depth analysis team awesome GO!

First of all, loving the soundtrack, subtle, yet classical, yet still interesting, like the later Russian composers I adore. Also, I've noticed this before, but can I just say I LOOOVE the Paradox logo all done up for CKII? Cause I love it. The platypus is still that little touch of absurdity, at first glance it still looks abstract, yet it looks very period. Whoever designed that specific page did well.

Henrik! Your last name looks a lot longer than how you say it... I can't pronounce Swedish!

First of all: Unilateral Relations. That seems like a LOT of things to calculate. However, it being a fixed value will actually speed this up a LOT compared the CK1, so there's a balance there. Taking away Stability is an odd decision, but I suppose all those things are covered mostly by relations. However, having a Tyranny/Infamy type thing would have been handy, imho.
Gotta love traits effecting relations! Seems much more balanced to have fixed values. I mean, in CK1, your Arbitrary, Reckless duke will eventually declare war on your king just because he's Generous and Wise, because that -0.1 relations hit per month adds up. Or, well, subtracts down, but...


Ok, on to the game-screens. Kaiser Ludwig III of the Holy Roman Empire. Already I'm excited for this game, just on the basis of that name. It's everything that's right! The German title, the numbers, it being called the HRE, not Germany, such an improvement already over CK1. And it tells you who you're about to inherit! That is handy.
And then BOOM! Super info, just from holding the cursor over the portrait! (Btw, portraits are shaping up nicely.)
Ok, First thing on the list is ID. Handy for on-the-fly save-game modding! However, slightly mood-breaking. Is there going to be an option that makes that go away? I don't wanna see my character's ID's every time I scroll over him...
Age. Pretty straightforward. Ooooh, that reminds me: Is it possible for you guys to put a character's Birthday somewhere on their sheet? I remember trying to snatch up Bill the Bastard's daughters in CK1, waiting with tense breath for them to turn 16, only to miss it by a month, and have them married off to Alfred the Dirty Saxon.
Learning: I have no idea what this is. We can only speculate...
Health and Fertility: I must agree with the others, I kinda liked having these hidden. At the very least, I would go the Magna Mundi way, and instead of showing us the values, describe it. Healthy, Sick, Near Death's Door, Virile, Sterile, Very Virile, Somewhat Virile, stuff like that. I would be happy if you did the same with Loyalty too, actually.
And then OOOH BOY, you're on the road to inherit a lot more than you thought!
My first thought at seeing that hella-long list is: how are they organized? Is it by the age or health of the current holder, or ideally, some matrix of age and health combined, to tell you how likely it is for the current holder to die soon. Oh, and does this mean that you're next in line, or just that you're one of the first x people in line to inherit? Cause that is a LOT of peepz.

Ok, let's look at the character info screen in detail! You get the Dynasty and the tiny Dynasty coat of arms. Von Wittelsbach. I approve. Always liked them Bavarians. Religion and a little symbol.
I would have made the Catholic symbol simpler, as it doesn't need to be differentiated from Protestant, only from Orthodox, which has the extra arms anyways. Unless heretics get special crosses too, which I doubt.
He's reigning in Munchen, Oberbayern. I assume Oberbayern is the county, as Munchen is the barony? I like that a lot too. I am getting more and more excited about this here game!
The traits are all very reminiscent of CKII. A little more complicated emblems, which means they're going to be a bit more difficult to memorize, but I approve, over all.
Sand timer for age. At first looked at it and went "Wait, turn number? What is this, I don't even... ooooooh." Money, Prestige, Piety, all the same as before. Hasn't been put into the scenario's yet, I suppose. Diplomacy, Martial, Stewardship, and Intrigue, with the number in brackets including the advisors. The number range appears the same as in CK1, on first glance.
Little row of counties, showing all your holdings. Very neat and tidy, I approve.
But then we get to the pictures of people. Oooooh boy, there are 2 things here I disapprove of. 1st of all, the women backgrounds? Placeholder, I hope.
Secondly, the blood symbol. In CK1, the symbol to show that you were of the same dynasty was a little blue shield with a red blood drop in it, in the lower left corner. It was pretty. This? This is large, obtrusive, and UGLY. It's also on the right side, where the stacking pictures hide it. I demand a prettied up version of the CK1 blood icon, in the same spot too. Yes, this is important to me.

Ahem. Moving on.

Kaiserin? Never heard that before. I suppose it must be accurate? No comment beyond that.

I like the little cobwebs in the Liege spot. Different tabs for Vassals, Court, and Allies. Allies seems like it'll be pretty empty most of the time, is it worth a whole tab? I suppose it's cleaner this way than the alternative.
Those dudes. They have titles. (Approve of Herzog, Burgomeister, Bishop and Prince-Bishop), btw. However, what are they doing in the Court? Is this what happens when you make land-owner vassal your Marshal or whatever? And what do those arrows mean?
Oooh, you can see all the factors affecting your relations! That is very nice, just like Doomdark said.
Going over anyone's portrait even for a split second will bring up all their un-related titles? Coolio.

Margrethe Ylving is still a Princess of Denmark. what makes one a Prince/Princess? Being the son/daughter of a King? is a Prince's children a Prince?

Oooh, Graf's! This makes me happier and happier.

New kingdom time.
Orthodox cross? Disappointed. The two crosses look practically identical. Greek titles are sweet, again. Gonna be gooing over those for a long time when the game comes out, I'm sure.
What is State Diplomacy, which is affecting relations?
Employer, Host, and Liege are different. I don't understand the in-game differences...
The Death Skull is ugly. Why don't you just grey out the portrait? Or at least put it on the left side of the portrait, so you can see at a glance when the portraits are stacked who's dead.
There's that Personal Diplomacy. I'm beginning to have a bit of an idea of the difference between State and personal diplomacy...

Very ornate, almost Baroque backgrounds on the shields on the map. I would personally have preferred simpler, more fitting to the time period.

Boom, clicking on a province time! Far left, the big shield, I assume, is the coat of arms of the county. At the top is the CoA of the dude ruling the county. For each barony, I assume the left-most CoA is the CoA of the barony, and the right one is the CoA of the ruler, meaning the whole place is owned directly by the King of Serbia? And then the far right, you have the Duchy and Kingdom the county belongs too. Nice.

Ok, the Bulgarian province makes things a little more confusing. There are two CoA's up at the top, 1 for Vidin and one for Bulgaria. Does that show the CoA's of both the owner and the owner's liege? And if the Duke of Vidin does own the province, is that truly the King owning all of the baronies? Or is the left barony CoA the owner and the right one the Liege...

That's all I got folks!
 

Logos88

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Wow, interesting. I am the exact opposite; I found it to be the biggest crutch in Paradox games. In my mind the stability of the realm would never be universal, unless you possess a single barony, and unlikely there either. There are always the haves and the have-nots, and, more importantly, those who would exploit them. Provided there are characters to represent the many diverse interests of your realm, then all the mechanisms are in place to reflect stability.

The game is looking excellent I may add.

Craven... love that trait.

So tell me from the information revealed so far how are the peasants, the burghers or the regular clergy represented in some way in the characters system? You have one point, stability shouldn't be universal, but at least it gave you some sense (along with those province orders slots) of how this other orders were felling in the realm, per province. Now tell me how do you know that peasants are unhappy, just because the mayor of the city doesn't like you? the mayor opinion gives you any idea if the people of that city love their king or not? how do you know that burghers in a certain city are prosperous and getting power? or how regular clergy and monasteries are happy with their king politics and morality? Now you just interact with High nobles, bishops (nobles) and mayors. You don't know nothing of how lesser people see you. stability and the province order powers were not perfect, but at least would give you some information if your kingdom was well of ill, in the edge of rebellion.
 

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Having not really been able to get into CK 1 due to frustrations I have with that old game engine, I am super excited to play CK II when it comes out. I will be fore sure pre-ordering this one!
 

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At 1:43, you will see Ecumenical Patriarch Theodorus, who appears to have a special background for his portrait. It doesn't look exactly like a King's but similiar.

He's in and he is classed as a King. Naturally he begins life as a vassal of the Byzantine Emperor. In fact one of our researchers scriped characters for all the bishops, arch-bishops and patriachs of Constantinople up untill 1066. I fixed the problem where Saint Andrew (the first bishop of Constinople) was not of Scottish culture as he should be. I hope you are all pleased about this news.

I notice this Patriarch doesn't have a regnal number?

I love this DD, and I can't wait for more video DD's!

Check out the pretty flowing rivers at 1:55.
 

RedRooster81

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A few comments on comments:

@Gwyn: pretty cool stuff, huh? All those counties waiting to be inherited are probably because the current titleholders don't have legal heirs. One of the biggest improvements IMHO, because the lands go back to the liege if you die without an heir, instead of some randomly generated nobleman getting it. So now I can feel a little safer giving land to my courtiers in their 40s and 50s for good service: if they have some kids, good. If not I get the land back.

I think that tyranny and infamy are translated instead into character relations penalties: so if you take away a title, all your vassals get -20 relations or something with you for ten years, cumulatively. Assassinate a popular duke so your son can inherit his lands, -50 relations for all vassals, -100 for other members of his dynasty. So I think it is getting more specific with the effects, instead of just increasing a general "badboy" figure. I do wonder, as Logos does, about how peasant, burgher, and other "underclass" opinion of you will be shown. Maybe it will be something for your spymaster to keep track of? Sure you should know exactly why the archbishop doesn't like you, but when your capital suddenly faces a huge riot, there should be some foreshadowing at least. Maybe that appears in the ledger and the barony screens? I hope it has not become that much of a character-based game.
 

Nick B II

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Everyone seems to have missed the best bit of the DD. At 2:42: Doomdark says relations will be affected by a broken betrothal.

@Gwyn ap Nud:
Host/Liege/Employer only makes sense if characters are allowed to start their own mercenary companies. Maybe the third son of some Norman Baron is hired by the Byzantines to help keep the Emperor's restive vassals in check. His liege is his father, his employer is the Emperor, and his host is the poor schmuck in Anatolia "honored" by the prescence of a company of Imperial mercenaries.

If only I could fast-forward to next March...

Nick