Crusader Kings II: The Republic - "Post Mortem" Thoughts

Crusader Kings II: The Republic - "Post Mortem" Thoughts

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Doomdark

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The Republic has been out for a few weeks now and we're happy to say the response has been overwhelmingly positive. As you know, the announcement for the next expansion is imminent, so I thought I'd round off the Republic cycle with a short "post mortem" discussion (though I would prefer calling it "post natal").

Way back when we made the original Crusader Kings, we considered making republics playable somehow, but there was neither time nor a design that would fit the rest of the game. Come Crusader Kings II, we were, again, more concerned with core gameplay and revitalizing the original game, so playable republics remained a gleam in the designers' eyes. However, when we sat down to plan the future expansions, the republics were one of the obvious choices (together with Islam, the Byzantine Empire, etc.)

Initially, we discussed completely waiving the importance of your dynasty, allowing you to play a succession of Doges regardless of their origins. This would entail gameplay more along the lines of Europa Universalis, where you play a country. The main concern with this approach was that it would eliminate one of the most fun and unique aspects of CKII; the building of a Dynasty. Thus, we decided on the "five families" concept and the virtual "Family Palace" holding. I am very pleased with this design choice since it preserves the dynasty based gameplay while still providing something new and different.

The other main innovation in The Republic is of course the Trade Post system. The basic idea has percolated around the office for a long time, and something similar but more advanced was proposed for Europa Universalis IV (though ultimately rejected.) Initially, we considered having a few different trade goods and allowing trade posts in all counties (and not just along the coast), but this was too ambitious given our allotted time. Also, while it would suit the Hansa and a potential republic of Novgorod, it was not very fitting for the great Italian city states. The end result turned out better, I believe. It's simple and it fits the era.

Another feature we agonized over was naval combat. This is a huge deal, and we've basically argued the matter to death. There were some significant naval battles in the rough period, but the only engagements of strategic importance during the entire era seems to have been the Battle of Meloria between Genoa and Pisa and the Battle of Sluys. On the other hand, many efforts to intercept raids and invasions failed miserably. Thus, naval combat in CKII, if ever added, would not be an all or nothing affair, but more akin to skirmishes with very limited casualties. It would still require a great deal of work to implement. End verdict: not worth it.

That's about it this time. I hope you are enjoying the expansion, and stay tuned for information on the next one. :)

PS
A huge thanks to our beta testers who helped find the bugs, balance the game and research the genealogies of all the obscure Patrician families!
 
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stars2heaven

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Well I have really enjoyed the expansion so far. It is my favorite yet! I'm also looking forward to seeing what will be included in the next one.
 

Powermonger

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Just want to also add my thanks to the Republic DLC, I think everyone appreciates the efforts you guys go to to keep the game fresh and always expanding.

In terms of trade post system, can we expect this to to expanded on in future with a view to including land-based routes when you have more time?

Anyway, we all look forward to the announcement of the Dragons of the North DLC :D
 

Slaxl

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However, when we sat down to plan the future expansions...
Does that mean that you have already a fleshed out road map of what future expansions the game will get, or is it very much still fluid and dependent upon time/popularity?

Thus, we decided on the "five families" concept and the virtual "Family Palace" holding.
Any chance of making new holding types moddable so we can add our own types? Please. :eek:o That'd be awesome. :D

Anyway, it's great stuff, I've been enjoying The Republics, and their monies.
 

neondt

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Very much enjoying playing a Patricians, good work :)

Can you comment on why this "potential republic of Novgorod" didn't make it into the expansion? I made a Novgorod Republic mod and I can attest that it's great fun :p
 

Doomdark

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Does that mean that you have already a fleshed out road map of what future expansions the game will get, or is it very much still fluid and dependent upon time/popularity?
We have a fairly fleshed out road map, but it's always subject to change of course. :)
 

Doomdark

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Can you comment on why this "potential republic of Novgorod" didn't make it into the expansion? I made a Novgorod Republic mod and I can attest that it's great fun :p
Two reasons: it needs a coastal capital, and the historical Novgorod does not fit our profile (with merchant fleets and coastal trade posts.)
 

lokomoko

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Well I have really enjoyed the expansion so far. It is my favorite yet! I'm also looking forward to seeing what will be included in the next one.
If you've been watching them slowly reveal the art for the next DLC, I think it'd be pretty obvious that it's Pagans/Vikings. :p
 

Faber81

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As I said in another thread, the idea behind The Republic is awesome, with well implemented mechanisms that work fine with the rest of the game, it doesn't feel "out of place" at all.
But, and maybe it's just my impression, I found this DLC a bit too buggy and unbalanced at the release date. Even now it needs some adjustment.
Anyway I'm sure that in due time you will find good solutions, just take your time doing it and do it right, don't rush DLCs please.
Thanks for your hard work Devs (and everyone involved), you indeed created a masterpiece game. ;)
 

Davisx3m

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Would it ever be possible to see some of these things that were rejected?
Such as trade-goods and In-land trade-posts. And would it ever be possible to even go further with the DLC's and say..
Develop the Family Palace into a more detailed Palace view which has been discussed?

What I'm basically is asking is, could these DLC's be even more polished in patches?
Or will they stay as they are done at start?
 

Thure

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Two reasons: it needs a coastal capital, and the historical Novgorod does not fit our profile (with merchant fleets and coastal trade posts.)
Would you do a landlocket republic DLC if the players give you some inspirations? The Swiss, Novgorod or some of the German Free Cities would be a cool game.
 

Vindahl

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All in all, this was a good expansion - a long waited one...
And thanks for this honest talk about your thoughts on the expansion - the things you changed, and the things you decided not to change...
Very cool of you, thanks a lot... :)
 

Klarum

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http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?661626-Paradox-change-your-DLC-policy!

Here you go. 8 pages of reading for your feedback pleasure.

Short summary: balance testing seems to be your major flaw when releasing DLCs that appear to catter more to whatever the forums are requesting the most. Hence the apt name "flavor of the month DLC".

Dont get me wrong, I am still playing and buying almost everthing you guys do. But you seriously need to rethink some aspects of how these DLCs are being brought to the game.

Thanks.
 

Arko

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Would you do a landlocket republic DLC if the players give you some inspirations? The Swiss, Novgorod or some of the German Free Cities would be a cool game.
+1
 

theKing1988

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Great DLC and accompanying patch, i really love the new mechanics and the way it adds immersion to the game. It does need a bit of rebalancing, but i'm sure you guys are already on it, so keep up the good work.
 

riadach

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It is a great new mechanic, but I would still like to see trade routes, or the ability to establish and link trade routes and to build trade posts along them.
 

theKing1988

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Also, does imminent mean today? :p
I'm assuming it will be announced when the "what is this" picture is fully revealed. And so far it is up to day 8 of 10, so i'm guessing the new DLC will be revealed the day after tomorrow.
 

Red_warning

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I, and many other's I'm sure, appreciate that you take your time to voice your thoughts on this forum.

Now please bring the Viking out of his closet.
 

riadach

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I'm assuming it will be announced when the "what is this" picture is fully revealed. And so far it is up to day 8 of 10, so i'm guessing the new DLC will be revealed the day after tomorrow.
Yes, but they could always throw a spanner in the works. Their convention is tomorrow, I imagine it will be fleshed out then, but an announcement today wouldn't be beyond comprehension.