Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 4 - The Pagan Reformation

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 4 - The Pagan Reformation

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Doomdark

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Yesterday should have been a dev diary day, but I forgot that May 1 is actually some sort of Red holiday, and turning up to work gets you lined up against a wall and shot. However, this is not the time to discuss the mysterious idols, totems and faiths of the previous century. Let us instead think back much further, to simpler - if no less bloody - times, before Socialist May Day, before Christian Walpurgis Night, when the bonfires blazed for the Old Gods...

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Holy_Sites.jpg

Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Great_Holy_War.jpg

Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Fylkirate.jpg

There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

[video=youtube;yoF84KVR9F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoF84KVR9F8[/video]
[video=youtube_share;vYxB1O-XGk0]http://youtu.be/vYxB1O-XGk0[/video]

Bonus! Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods expansion in-depth Q&A at PC Gamer
Everything you want to know, but haven´t dared to ask?
“It’s less than a month until the longships land to bring us The Old Gods, the pagan-focused expansion for Crusader Kings II. We’ve been keeping close tabs on new details at our Viking Analysis Desk, and today, we’ve got some extra meaty details for you. Below you’ll find our massive Q&A with project lead Henrik Fåhraeus, covering everything from concubines to pagan sacred kings.”
Read the full Q&A here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/


Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
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ivicaeu3

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finally
 

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I reeaaally really really really want to hear more about how this affects Zoroastrianism... I'm really interested and playing zoroastrian (zoroastric? zoroan? zoroastricanian?) characters and I'm worried that all the attention will be given to northern pagans only, as I've heard little to nothing about what mechanics will apply to them. Can we expect a Zoroastricaniamistic Dev Diary any time soon?

Also, this diary really makes me excited for the new expansion, I can see that it'll add a lot of depth to the game. Oh Paradox, why do you torture me so.

EDIT: Also, what will the norse holy book be called?
 

Cymsdale

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I like that there is a revamp to moral authority. I always thought the current implementation of it was kinda weak. Hopefully it won't be as easy to get to 100 and have it stay there forever. I'd like improving moral authority to be a goal you can set out to achieve, not something that just happens with zero effort.
 

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Pity there haven't been any dev diaries with any significant info regarding Zoroastrianism.
 

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the most important question: what about modability? :D

ie., are the effects of religious reformation and non-reformation hard-coded, or can we script them however we like (for example, hypothetically making the "Old Faith" the more peaceful non-war-restless one, while the "Reformed" one the war-happy one? define which laws are available to which "version" of the faith? and the like... ) ?
can the chaplain extra-realm functions also be modded for use by non-Abrahamic faiths, or will they be hardcoded to christianity and islam?
can the new vassals-restless-at-peace mechanic, the Norse radiding mechanic, and similar new mechanics, be scripted to be used by any custom religion we make, or will they be hardcoded to the relevant vanilla religions?
 

Talq

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So how many holy sites are there in all? About how many holy sites do Catholicism & the Muslims have?

How are temples/bishoprics treated? What is their succession law?

Do pagans have an excommunication/fatwa equivilent?

Edit: OK I'll bite - what does that pagan symbol column (currently full of zeros) mean?

----
Will be learn about landless adventurers and the new rebel system at some point?
 

unmerged(457435)

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Thanks.
A question: how will the CoA change when a pagan converts to a monotheist religion (and viceversa)?
 

Stolen Rutters

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The revamp to religious moral authority based on holy sites will hopefully help keep Muslim authority high enough to keep all of Africa from caving to Christianity, which seems to happen by 1150 in the original game start bookmark. Also, it should make Jerusalem a real target to strive for as a Catholic, beyond just being scripted as such in the Crusades. I am very hopeful, yay!
 
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Doomdark

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Pity there haven't been any dev diaries with any significant info regarding Zoroastrianism.
Ah, the Zoroastrians. We will spill the beans on them next week. :)
 

Doomdark

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the most important question: what about modability? :D

ie., are the effects of religious reformation and non-reformation hard-coded, or can we script them however we like (for example, hypothetically making the "Old Faith" the more peaceful non-war-restless one, while the "Reformed" one the war-happy one? define which laws are available to which "version" of the faith? and the like... ) ?
can the chaplain extra-realm functions also be modded for use by non-Abrahamic faiths, or will they be hardcoded to christianity and islam?
can the new vassals-restless-at-peace mechanic, the Norse radiding mechanic, and similar new mechanics, be scripted to be used by any custom religion we make, or will they be hardcoded to the relevant vanilla religions?
That kind of thing is fully moddable.
 

King Anund

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So Catholicism, Orthodoxy and all the religions will have Holy Sites. Which are the catholic and orthodox holy sites?
 

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Soulstrider

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Ah, the Zoroastrians. We will spill the beans on them next week. :)
Can't wait, for some reason their religion causes me endless fascination. I guess because it was the one non-Abrahamic religion that kept going since the time of Herodotus.
 

Doomdark

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So how many holy sites are there in all? About how many holy sites do Catholicism & the Muslims have?
All religion have five holy sites.

How are temples/bishoprics treated? What is their succession law?
They are treated like cities/mayors, but females can hold pagan temples.

Do pagans have an excommunication/fatwa equivilent?
Nope

Edit: OK I'll bite - what does that pagan symbol column (currently full of zeros) mean?
Piety you gain from vassal priests.

Will be learn about landless adventurers and the new rebel system at some point?
Of course!
 

LordNeidhart

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Ah, the Zoroastrians. We will spill the beans on them next week. :)
So THAT'S what they're called!

Also, will all religions have the same number of holy sites? I'm having trouble thinking of holy sites for catholics other than Rome and Jerusalem.

EDIT: Oh nevermind he answered that already
 

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Will we be able to capture reigning female monarchs as concubines? If so, will a joint heir inherit both kingdoms, or will she be assumed dead and replaced by her brother, giving the joint child a strong claim instead?
 

Assalander

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Apr 6, 2012
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To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans.
Would this mean by any chance that the AI will finally care when a foreign religion attacks Rome or Mecca?