Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 2 - The Wrath of Odin

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Viden

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You want to give Muslims both the ability to gain vast amounts of loot and the ability to freely invade all neighbours? There would be nothing left of Europe by 1100. I agree it's a little ahistorical not to let them but simply for balance purposes...

In fact, I would give them the former and strip them from the latter, because the latter has no sense after the initial Muslim expansion in the VII century. Just look at Iberia. In OTL Muslim conquest after the initial invasion of the Visigothic Kingdom was almost null, whilst raids happened periodically.

in my honest opinion, both muslims and christians should be able to raid aswell, BUT with a special condition, they MUST be at war against the target raided. Muslims used to raid and pillage a LOT in Iberia, and what to say about the muslim pirates raiding the Byzantine Empire (among other targets...). about the christians, shall we not forget about the many raid campaigns conducted during the 100 years war (just as an example).

I think the same. Just remember what did the Crusaders.

Perhaps everyone should be able to raid their respective heathens...

Of course, you still can raid as it is, even in 1.092: When you siege holdings, you get gold. Perhaps P'dox decided that traditional wars better represent the raiding activities of non-pagans.



Thats pretty much just normal warfare in CK2, then. With the added feature that the gold is coming from the county rather than the characters.

But there is no damage in this. No destruction of improvements.
 

Graspiloot

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In fact, I would give them the former and strip them from the latter, because the latter has no sense after the initial Muslim expansion in the VII century. Just look at Iberia. In OTL Muslim conquest after the initial invasion of the Visigothic Kingdom was almost null, whilst raids happened periodically.

The whole holy war, invasion and jihad mechanics are broken (jihad is for sunnites, orthodox don't get crusades either), but I think paradox cares much more about making gameplay fun for the average player than making it historical.
 

Ruwaard

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This looks interesting. :) Though I assume, that a defender can call his levies and his vassals to arms in order to try and drive the raiders back? Finally totally razing holdings often doesn't make sense anyway, since that means less potential loot for next raids.
 

unmerged(617637)

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Please answer us if Republics have special trait to use the big rivers for tradeposts all the time?
 

thekinguter

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Does the last fort level prevent the province from being looted at all?
 

Hazzy

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How about raiding for Christians and Muslims as well, but toggling raiding on your army would cost you half of your prestige (minnimum of 10 or something like that) and/or piety. So that when you are still a nobody type of count on the end of the world, you don't actually care, but when you are like king of France and you start to count your game points it's kinda not advisable anymore. Or maybe even -50 or so to Pope relations (free excomunnication!). Free of charge for Tengri and Vikings.

EDIT: Or maybe just count it as tyranny -20 level. You know I'm kinda trying to model Reynald de Chatillon form Kingdom of Heaven type of raiding Christian guy.
 

Alexandre_007

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Yes, I saw that too, I think they are trying to avoid Francia blob'n the way the HRE does.
563563_577408785610967_882928258_n.jpg
take a look at East Francia too :)
 

Thure

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The whole holy war, invasion and jihad mechanics are broken (jihad is for sunnites, orthodox don't get crusades either), but I think paradox cares much more about making gameplay fun for the average player than making it historical.

Did Orthodox Church ever crusade? No! So this is quiet historical.
 

Lord Xia

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Yea, crusades made no sense to the Orthodox, concept was foreign. I recognize the difficulty of balancing out historical facts with fun gameplay and game balance while also making religions feel different from each other.
 

ChildeR

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take a look at East Francia too :)

They said they'd test that setup (where's the image from?), but if they go with it I hope they make the AI more aware of alliances - it would be stupid for the king of West Francia to fold to a faction with even 150% strength if his heir the king of Aquitaine is ready to help.
 
Last edited:

nalivayko

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Why not make navigable rivers as Shipbuilding technology unlock?

Or is it at least moddable?

May I try?

Navigating rivers should not be a matter of the level of technology, it should be a matter of ship types. I wish there were different ship types and only select provinces (or cultures or religions, whatever does the trick) were able to build ships that can travel by rivers.
 

Graspiloot

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Did Orthodox Church ever crusade? No! So this is quiet historical.

Exactly my point, so why do shiites get jihads?

May I try?

Navigating rivers should not be a matter of the level of technology, it should be a matter of ship types. I wish there were different ship types and only select provinces (or cultures or religions, whatever does the trick) were able to build ships that can travel by rivers.

I believe they said in the livestream that only vikings could do it (only viking longboats).
 

Alexandre_007

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They said they'd test that setup (where's the image from?), but if they go with it I hope they make the AI more aware of alliances - it would be stupid for the king of West Francia to fold to a faction with even 150% strength if his heir the king of Aquitaine is ready to help.
they put that image on facebook this morning
 

nalivayko

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Exactly my point, so why do shiites get jihads?



I believe they said in the livestream that only vikings could do it (only viking longboats).

I believe you are right. Shame though. Once Rus becomes Russian, will the river travel be impossible for it then? Makes little sense limiting this to just one culture.
 

Stolen Rutters

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With the Dev Diary 2 I am now twice as excited. Rivers were so valuable to trade and wealth, I'm glad they are finally going to have an impact. With wealth and plunder affecting how useful your holding is, ooh, I can't wait!

I really have issues with provinces only becoming more powerful as the game progresses, without regard for how raids and invasions can set a region back. Plus, with raid and siege damage, I might finally consider protecting my provinces rather than throwing the entire army into sieging the enemy faster than they siege me.