• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
It's time for another cycle of developer diaries on Crusader Kings II and I thought I'd begin by talking about the new start date and giving you a broad overview of the upcoming expansion; The Old Gods. Yes, we're pushing back the earliest possible start date to 867 AD. This is a special bookmark that comes with the expansion (and you will not be able to start at dates between 867 and 1066 without modding.)

Europe is a very different place in 867... Many of the familiar countries have not yet come into being. There is no Hungary, no Poland, no Russian principalities and the British Isles and Scandinavia are full of petty kingdoms. The Carolingians still rule the Franks, but the great Empire of Charlemagne has been divided between four of his descendants. In the Byzantine Empire, a new dynasty has just risen - the House of Makedon - destined to restore some of its former glory. The Muslims are in the middle of a drawn-out crisis as the once enormous Abbasid Caliphate has fractured, with a succession of Caliphs being murdered by their own Turkish generals.

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Europe_867.png

Most importantly, however, the North and East are completely dominated by bustling tribes of unrepentant heathens who remain less than impressed with the White Christ. Why debase yourself before a dead man on a cross when you can loot the riches of his fat clergy instead? Just as the fury of the Northmen descends on the undefended shores of Europe, other, equally pagan threats are on the rise in the steppes of Tartaria. Like the Avars before them, the feared Magyar horse lords are pushing into Europe from beyond the Carpathians. Why is all this more important than the affairs of Christians and Muslims? Because with The Old Gods, all these heathens are finally playable! (But you probably knew that already. :D )

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Magyar_Invasion.png

Playing a pagan chieftain is at least as different as playing a Muslim. Not only that, there are significant differences between the various heathen religions. Some are aggressive in nature, like the Norse and Tengri beliefs, and some are more defensive, like the Finno-Ugric faith. For example, the warlike Norse will suffer a prestige loss for being at peace for too long, and will need to wage war or set sail to pillage and loot. The Finns don't have this problem, but on the other hand, their vassals will dislike having their troops raised (like Christians). Some faiths get defensive bonuses and larger garrisons in their homelands, some don't, etc. However, they can all potentially be reformed to withstand the allure of the new religions.

CKII_ToG_DD_01_The_Great_Heathen_Army.png

In the coming weeks, I will explain the different religions in detail. I will, of course, also talk about other new features, like traversible rivers, new cultures, Zoroastrians, Adventurers, and much more. Stay tuned, and here are some more screenshots to tease and titillate!

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Loot_and_Pillage.pngCKII_ToG_DD_01_Varangians.pngCKII_ToG_DD_01_The_Last_Zoroastrians.png



[video=youtube;V-edUnWQgyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-edUnWQgyM[/video]

Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Eh, at that start date? Really? Wikipedia says it was only from 1154, but I'm not an expert on Ireland.

Traces of Christianity in England are found as far as the 3rd Century, and in the Council of Arles of 314 3 English bishops (London, York and Lincoln) were there. Ireland was Christianized in the 5th Century, as well. Were pagan practices still around at game start? Of course. On the whole, though, the Isles were Christian.
 
Eh, at that start date? Really? Wikipedia says it was only from 1154, but I'm not an expert on Ireland.

Ireland got Christianized directly from Rome aroud 4th century AD. They've been developing kinda thier own rite even since, with many incursions of their pagan tradition. Then they went "missionareing" all over Europe, like there's no tomorrow. There's a legend, that they established one of the earliest monasteries in Novgorod.
 
Traces of Christianity in England are found as far as the 3rd Century, and in the Council of Arles of 314 3 English bishops (London, York and Lincoln) were there. Ireland was Christianized in the 5th Century, as well. Were pagan practices still around at game start? Of course. On the whole, though, the Isles were Christian.

I'm talking about being Catholics, not about being Christians. In my opinion all "not yet Catholics" should be Orthodox, because it is still before official Great Schism.

Ireland got Christianized directly from Rome aroud 4th century AD. They've been developing kinda thier own rite even since, with many incursions of their pagan tradition. Then they went "missionareing" all over Europe, like there's no tomorrow. There's a legend, that they establised one of the earliest churches in Novgorod.

Oh, well, interesting. But I wonder if they be their own branch like Miaphysites, then?
 
I'm talking about being Catholics, not about being Christians.



Oh, well, interesting. But I wonder if they be their own branch like Miaphysites, then?

To me it would be more important to add Nestorianism as a separate branch of Christianity, especially given the earlier start date (in 867 the Christian community in the Middle East was still very substantial). I would be content if they add Celtic Christianity as a heresy of Catholicism that is specifically limited to Gaelic areas.
 
Last edited:
Ireland got Christianized directly from Rome aroud 4th century AD. They've been developing kinda thier own rite even since, with many incursions of their pagan tradition. Then they went "missionareing" all over Europe, like there's no tomorrow. There's a legend, that they established one of the earliest monasteries in Novgorod.

Also the priests from Ireland and AngloSaxon England where recruited actively by the Francs to standarise the spoken and written latin in the Caroligian realm. They where of big influance on the way mainland Europe adopted catholism.
 
Exactly. How legit according to you are the two blobs named Holmgardr and Koenugardr instead of a dozen of Slavic pagan tribes at this date?

I know that you're mainly approaching this from a standpoint that everything has to be as historically accurate as possible. But i wonder if such a setup would weaken the Eastern Slavic tribes too much and that is why they have joined them together in just two states.

I mean if everything had to be historically accurate that big Cumania blob on the steppes wouldn't exist either.
 
*drool*
 
Oh, well, interesting. But I wonder if they be their own branch like Miaphysites, then?

I doubt they'll spend the dev time creating another Christian branch in the Old Gods.

Them being Catholics isn't inaccurate - even the Orthodox agreed that the patriarch of the west had jurisdiction. The pope just had way less control over such far-away places back then.
 
I would ask for an answer to these, though. Also, was assimilation and culture flip toned down? Italy became consistently German in most of the games starting in 1066, I'm not sure what starting in 867 would mean for Italian culture. :D

A couple of questions (because someone NEEDS to be a pain :D ) about Italy.
- Why is Italy still a Kingdom tier, when in 867 East and West Francia were kingdoms and Italy was the empire?
- No navigable Po? It is an excellent water way up to Cremona and decent (but not perfect) until Pavia.
 
Will there be any changes to religious moral authority, or are the pagans going to get religious heads of convenience (as on current mechanics religions with heads slowly head to 100 moral authority, while those without drift down as holy wars are lost.)
 
Look very nice!
If I have multiple different pagans as vassals, do some get angry (e.g. norse) if not warring while others don't? i.e. does it play with top-lieges mechanics or all-in?
Do troops get penalties to defence while looting? (I'm thinking of unarmored troops surprised at Stamford bridge)
 
To me it would be more important to add Nestorianism as a separate branch of Christianity, especially given the earlier start date (in 867 the Christian community in the Middle East was still very substantial). I would be content if they add Celtic Christianity as a heresy of Catholicism that is specifically limited to Gaelic areas.

Not only Gaelic areas, Brittany followed the Celtic rite too.

Speaking of Brittany, I am quite surprised that in 867, at the top of King Salomon's rule, it is a represented by a duchy and not a kingdom, that it is missing Mortrain and even Nantes...

Here is a map of Brittany in 867 :
500px-Carte_royaume_Bretagne.svg.png


Another question : will Basque paganism be included ? It was quite strong back in the 9th century...
 
- Why is Italy still a Kingdom tier, when in 867 East and West Francia were kingdoms and Italy was the empire?

They all claimed to be emperors at some point, just like many in Britain claimed to be kings despite holding little land. East Francia needs to have the HRE title to be part of regnal numbers in later starts, while West Francia probably has an empire so they can have a vassal King of Aquitaine. How would you divide the titles?
 
Looks good, love those rivers!

I wonder if the new map (navigable rivers) is DLC/867 exclusive or will it be content of an update and thus also be available 1066?
 
Another question : will Basque paganism be included ? It was quite strong back in the 9th century...

It would be nice to Basque in the glory of the Old Gods.

Yeah, sorry for the pun.

Looks good, love those rivers!

I wonder if the new map (navigable rivers) is DLC/867 exclusive or will it be content of an update and thus also be available 1066?

Seeing how they are basically map edits (*water provinces*) it stands to reason they will be there in any scenario.
 
Great to see the Raven flag flying over it's rightful land :)