Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 1 - A Different Europe

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Sian

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i would be very surprised if the base map differed between different start dates and depending on if you buy the DLC or not ... you got Mali even if you didn't get SoI 'member?
 

WeissRaben

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They all claimed to be emperors at some point, just like many in Britain claimed to be kings despite holding little land. East Francia needs to have the HRE title to be part of regnal numbers in later starts, while West Francia probably has an empire so they can have a vassal King of Aquitaine. How would you divide the titles?

They all claimed, yes, but it does not change that Louis II was at first co-emperor with Lothair, and at his death in 855 full Emperor of the Romans, crowned by the Pope and all. To be honest, I would make both East and West Francia kingdoms, with de jure HRE on all of those. Now, though, it gets tricky: how does the crown go around? Elective, of course, and all the Kings would have a vote, being part of the de jure empire. The problem is: how we stop every imbecile man from reconquering the de jure lands, and leave it to a great ruler? In the meanwhile the de jure Empire could well shrink - the mod The Winter King shows that you can juggle with de jure territories via events, and if events can do it then decisions triggering events can do it. Have lands leave if the Emperor is too bad to keep them in, and you could end up with an Holy Roman Empire NOT of German Nation - but, to make an example, based around Italy.
 

Doomdark

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That's why I want to see culture map. Maybe they made several tribes this way and melting pot to make Russian culture will start soon enough from the start.

The rulers are Norse, but almost all vassals, as well as all provinces are Slavic (well, a few are Finnic.) The idea is for the ruling dynasties to assimilate into the local culture.
 

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Them being Catholics isn't inaccurate - even the Orthodox agreed that the patriarch of the west had jurisdiction. The pope just had way less control over such far-away places back then.

Can I just point out that the word 'catholic' means 'universal' and in the sense of the early church refers to the fact that Christians followed a single doctrine. In this sense no church is 'catholic' following the schism, but of course the western church retained the name. The eastern church took the name 'orthodox' which means 'following traditional doctrine', but both churches could justifiably claim the title 'catholic' because they both claim to be (or at least strive to be) universal.

Of course the term 'catholic' was always an aspiration because there were many christian faiths other than that prescribed by the various councils who determined the universal doctrine. The main divisions I believe being related to the nature of Christ (in terms of a range of beliefs from his being an entirely supernatural being with no physical body to his being entirely human with no supernatural element at all), and the nature of the relationship of Christ to God. Catholic doctrine finalised in the system of belief in the Holy Trinity, but of course there were other major system, Arianism being the largest I believe (it's main difference being that Christ was a man who was made divine, rather than the incarnation of the deity). I could be slightly wrong about these details of course, my memory is from reading Gibbon some time ago and this part is a little complicated and I zoned out a bit at times.

That said, in-game all Christians should be Catholic, and anything else should be a heresy.
 

Doomdark

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Regarding the Frankish states, due to regnal number problems and such we've always pretended that the King of Germany is the HRE. So, no, it's not formally correct. The West Frankish "Empire" will usually degrade into a kingdom through events. This is all subject to change before release though.
 

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Regarding the Frankish states, due to regnal number problems and such we've always pretended that the King of Germany is the HRE. So, no, it's not formally correct. The West Frankish "Empire" will usually degrade into a kingdom through events. This is all subject to change before release though.

Reserving a fate similar to West Francia to Italy, though? It seems strange that the real emperor is not, even if the argument in favor of HRE is solid.
 

Doomdark

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Regarding Brittany, Salomon styles himself a king, but it's a "Petty", or Duke-tier kingdom. We've put the viking Hastein in Nantes at the start with a large force. A very challenging position for a player. Mortain should perhaps be given to Salomon.
 

unmerged(606777)

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The rulers are Norse, but almost all vassals, as well as all provinces are Slavic (well, a few are Finnic.) The idea is for the ruling dynasties to assimilate into the local culture.

Cool. But what's with the names "Koenugardr" and "Holmgardr"? Are they to transform at some point into thier proper names? It's kinda weird, because both Kiev and Novgorod existed before the Varangians.

Also the wouldn't the Kingdom of "Lotharingia" indeed be more appropriate history-wise than Burgundy?
 

th3freakie

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The rulers are Norse, but almost all vassals, as well as all provinces are Slavic (well, a few are Finnic.) The idea is for the ruling dynasties to assimilate into the local culture.
That doesn't really happen in the game right now, does it? My King of Aquatania game is seeing an ever-more-occitan nobility take over Iberia, and the only time my heir was close to changing culture was to his mother's German. Did you alter the mechanics of cultural assimilation?
 

ChildeR

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The rulers are Norse, but almost all vassals, as well as all provinces are Slavic (well, a few are Finnic.) The idea is for the ruling dynasties to assimilate into the local culture.

Hope you've made that more likely. Currently assimilation is impossible for foreign conquerors (why?) and has to happen for the top liege first (at which point he may be deposed in favor of an unconverted relative or just be succeeded by an unconverted son).
 

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So I know no one but me seems to care but what about West Africa during this time? Will the Pagans be playable and will they be more prominent? What kind of play style will they be?
 

Chyll

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Navigable rivers is amazing.
I am looking forward to the release even more.

Not real sure how I feel about Scotland, though...
 

rav3n

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the Idea that the entirety of the British isles were completely christian by this date(867) is comical, most pagans for years paid lip service to the Christians, and their is some evidence that paganism continued in remote areas for centuries. Though open and hidden worship was most likely stamped out completely by the 18th century, only to be revived in the late 19th century. There is little written about it(since it was the christians doing the writing) its not completely ahistorical to think that there were still openly pagan Nobles in Great Britain until about the 11th or 12th centuries. IE. Pre-Inquisitiaiton
 

ChildeR

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Can I just point out that the word 'catholic' means 'universal' and in the sense of the early church refers to the fact that Christians followed a single doctrine. [...]

In game they are just name tags to separate those who follow the Pope from those who follow the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pentarchy.

That said, in-game all Christians should be Catholic, and anything else should be a heresy.

Why? It would make Catholic and Orthodox rulers holy war each other.

Edit: Unless you mean there should be no Orthodox? Then who would be the religious head of the unified religion?
 

unmerged(75409)

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Hi Doomdark,

Since you're apparently redoing some of the UI panels, would you consider giving the traits icons in the character GUI (below the stats numbers) more room? Perhaps by extending it a little to the left, and reducing the room for the titles held by a character?

In the latest CK versions, and also in most of the major mods, characters tend to accumulate easily 8-12 traits and this makes the trait icons list very "squishy", i.e., hard to read unless you hover the mouse over the icons to check them one by one.

The space for the list of titles and claims held by a character on the other hand is normally not full at all, since 99.999% of the characters in the game only hold maybe 4-6 titles and an equal number of claims. Moreover, the titles held by a character can also be checked by looking at the map or browsing the ledger, but the list of traits is really only visible in a useful way in this field on the character GUI.

So, adjusting the two would IMHO improve the character GUI for the base game and additionally help especially those mods (like GoT) which tend to have a little more traits per character.
 

Mattobro

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I'm sure quite a few of the historical oversights by Paradox will be fixed in some sort of historical accuracy mod after release. SWMH map + Historically accurate slavic positions, Kingdom of Brittany, Poland and more.....That thought is as enticing as the actual DLC itself.... *drools*

Great first look though lads, looks way better then I could have ever imagined! :)
 

Jeltz

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So I know no one but me seems to care but what about West Africa during this time? Will the Pagans be playable and will they be more prominent? What kind of play style will they be?

Since west african pagans still were in control in 1066 (unlike how it currently is in the game) I hope they will get some flavour.
 

unmerged(606777)

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@Doomdark, ChildeR, th3freakie

If we look at the actual Russian history, Rurik (Hroerikr?) with his son Igor (Ingvar?) and his warlord Oleg (Helgi?) were the original Varangians that were invited by the Slovene, Krivichians and Finnics.

Igor was married to the Pskovian noblewoman Prekrasa, that was given the name Olga (Helga?) after marriage. The son of Igor and Olga - was Sviatoslav. That's where pretty much the Varangian connection ended. All sunsequent rulers bore Slavic names (Vladimir, Mstislav, Yaroslav, Svetopolk etc.) and were generally reffered to as "Russian (as in of the Rus)" instead of "Varangian". The exception were the names Rurik, Oleg, Igor, which were dynastical names, that were used sometimes in later periods.

So this cultural conversion in game, apparently, must be pretty quick.
 

garudamon11

Will suck for Victoria 3
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This sounds too awesome... Why must you release DDs while I have exams :(
Anyway this sounds like a lot of events will be added to the game to un-messify the situation, that would be great if true.