Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods - Dev Diary 1 - A Different Europe

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WeissRaben

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Eh, at that start date? Really? Wikipedia says it was only from 1154, but I'm not an expert on Ireland.

Traces of Christianity in England are found as far as the 3rd Century, and in the Council of Arles of 314 3 English bishops (London, York and Lincoln) were there. Ireland was Christianized in the 5th Century, as well. Were pagan practices still around at game start? Of course. On the whole, though, the Isles were Christian.
 

unmerged(606777)

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Eh, at that start date? Really? Wikipedia says it was only from 1154, but I'm not an expert on Ireland.

Ireland got Christianized directly from Rome aroud 4th century AD. They've been developing kinda thier own rite even since, with many incursions of their pagan tradition. Then they went "missionareing" all over Europe, like there's no tomorrow. There's a legend, that they established one of the earliest monasteries in Novgorod.
 

DamianGrim

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Traces of Christianity in England are found as far as the 3rd Century, and in the Council of Arles of 314 3 English bishops (London, York and Lincoln) were there. Ireland was Christianized in the 5th Century, as well. Were pagan practices still around at game start? Of course. On the whole, though, the Isles were Christian.

I'm talking about being Catholics, not about being Christians. In my opinion all "not yet Catholics" should be Orthodox, because it is still before official Great Schism.

Ireland got Christianized directly from Rome aroud 4th century AD. They've been developing kinda thier own rite even since, with many incursions of their pagan tradition. Then they went "missionareing" all over Europe, like there's no tomorrow. There's a legend, that they establised one of the earliest churches in Novgorod.

Oh, well, interesting. But I wonder if they be their own branch like Miaphysites, then?
 

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Is that a Viking controlled Nantes I see in Brittany? A lone pagan county next to the biggest blob on the map: truly a challenge worthy of the sagas.
 

WeissRaben

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I'm talking about being Catholics, not about being Christians.

Pffft. Yes, of course. My bad. They were as Catholic as it was possible by being a far, isolated archipelago thousands of kilometers from Rome. They were not Orthodox, anyway - the Pope still had their loyalty.
 

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I'm talking about being Catholics, not about being Christians.



Oh, well, interesting. But I wonder if they be their own branch like Miaphysites, then?

To me it would be more important to add Nestorianism as a separate branch of Christianity, especially given the earlier start date (in 867 the Christian community in the Middle East was still very substantial). I would be content if they add Celtic Christianity as a heresy of Catholicism that is specifically limited to Gaelic areas.
 
Last edited:

smeggy

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Ireland got Christianized directly from Rome aroud 4th century AD. They've been developing kinda thier own rite even since, with many incursions of their pagan tradition. Then they went "missionareing" all over Europe, like there's no tomorrow. There's a legend, that they established one of the earliest monasteries in Novgorod.

Also the priests from Ireland and AngloSaxon England where recruited actively by the Francs to standarise the spoken and written latin in the Caroligian realm. They where of big influance on the way mainland Europe adopted catholism.
 

theKing1988

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Exactly. How legit according to you are the two blobs named Holmgardr and Koenugardr instead of a dozen of Slavic pagan tribes at this date?

I know that you're mainly approaching this from a standpoint that everything has to be as historically accurate as possible. But i wonder if such a setup would weaken the Eastern Slavic tribes too much and that is why they have joined them together in just two states.

I mean if everything had to be historically accurate that big Cumania blob on the steppes wouldn't exist either.
 

DamianGrim

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Considering my first question, will Iceland be Irish then (according to some legends), or you are still leaving it as Norse? ;)
 

Franconian

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*drool*
 

ChildeR

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Oh, well, interesting. But I wonder if they be their own branch like Miaphysites, then?

I doubt they'll spend the dev time creating another Christian branch in the Old Gods.

Them being Catholics isn't inaccurate - even the Orthodox agreed that the patriarch of the west had jurisdiction. The pope just had way less control over such far-away places back then.
 

WeissRaben

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I would ask for an answer to these, though. Also, was assimilation and culture flip toned down? Italy became consistently German in most of the games starting in 1066, I'm not sure what starting in 867 would mean for Italian culture. :D

A couple of questions (because someone NEEDS to be a pain :D ) about Italy.
- Why is Italy still a Kingdom tier, when in 867 East and West Francia were kingdoms and Italy was the empire?
- No navigable Po? It is an excellent water way up to Cremona and decent (but not perfect) until Pavia.
 

Talq

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Will there be any changes to religious moral authority, or are the pagans going to get religious heads of convenience (as on current mechanics religions with heads slowly head to 100 moral authority, while those without drift down as holy wars are lost.)
 

Sforzesco

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Look very nice!
If I have multiple different pagans as vassals, do some get angry (e.g. norse) if not warring while others don't? i.e. does it play with top-lieges mechanics or all-in?
Do troops get penalties to defence while looting? (I'm thinking of unarmored troops surprised at Stamford bridge)
 

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To me it would be more important to add Nestorianism as a separate branch of Christianity, especially given the earlier start date (in 867 the Christian community in the Middle East was still very substantial). I would be content if they add Celtic Christianity as a heresy of Catholicism that is specifically limited to Gaelic areas.

Not only Gaelic areas, Brittany followed the Celtic rite too.

Speaking of Brittany, I am quite surprised that in 867, at the top of King Salomon's rule, it is a represented by a duchy and not a kingdom, that it is missing Mortrain and even Nantes...

Here is a map of Brittany in 867 :
500px-Carte_royaume_Bretagne.svg.png


Another question : will Basque paganism be included ? It was quite strong back in the 9th century...
 

ChildeR

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- Why is Italy still a Kingdom tier, when in 867 East and West Francia were kingdoms and Italy was the empire?

They all claimed to be emperors at some point, just like many in Britain claimed to be kings despite holding little land. East Francia needs to have the HRE title to be part of regnal numbers in later starts, while West Francia probably has an empire so they can have a vassal King of Aquitaine. How would you divide the titles?
 

G84

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Looks good, love those rivers!

I wonder if the new map (navigable rivers) is DLC/867 exclusive or will it be content of an update and thus also be available 1066?
 

ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Another question : will Basque paganism be included ? It was quite strong back in the 9th century...

It would be nice to Basque in the glory of the Old Gods.

Yeah, sorry for the pun.

Looks good, love those rivers!

I wonder if the new map (navigable rivers) is DLC/867 exclusive or will it be content of an update and thus also be available 1066?

Seeing how they are basically map edits (*water provinces*) it stands to reason they will be there in any scenario.
 

spinoza013

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Great to see the Raven flag flying over it's rightful land :)