I agree, it is a really touchy subject. It needs to be handled with care, but if done right, it could add many interesting mechanics in interaction between non-Jews and Jews. Because historical Jewish influence on the world was much, much more than just pogroms.
"Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham" ?
- Thread starter Kljunas
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I agree, it is a really touchy subject. It needs to be handled with care, but if done right, it could add many interesting mechanics in interaction between non-Jews and Jews. Because historical Jewish influence on the world was much, much more than just pogroms.
- 1. muslims of the time were more tolerable of jews then european christians. 2. jews themselves was not so tolerable when they had their own independent nation.
History is full of foul deeds and cruel happenings, if some media whores will want to launch hysteria campaign they will do it no matter what.
You also can't whitewash the entire thing, as that would be seen as historical revisionism and denial. It would take a careful balance to do it in a tasteful and balanced manner. At the same time, though, there isn't a need to cover the entire Jewish population, just those that play a significant role. Expelling Jews from an area, or other such actions, need not cover the more extreme cases of violence in such a representation. But, there has to be some level of representation of such actions...
What a headache this would have caused for PDS, if it is in fact what this DLC is planned to cover.
What a headache this would have caused for PDS, if it is in fact what this DLC is planned to cover.
I would like to point out at this time that SteamDB no longer lists Sons of Abraham in the CK2 Depot.
It does, however, list "Crusader Kings II: Underworld Invasion", "Crusader Kings II: Songs of the Northern Trolls", "Crusader Kings II: Witches and Wizards Unit Pack" and "Crusader Kings II: Sparkly Vampires Unit Pack" now though. Which I imagine is likely Paradox's none-too-subtle way of telling us not to get all hyped up about random stuff that shows up on SteamDB.
It does, however, list "Crusader Kings II: Underworld Invasion", "Crusader Kings II: Songs of the Northern Trolls", "Crusader Kings II: Witches and Wizards Unit Pack" and "Crusader Kings II: Sparkly Vampires Unit Pack" now though. Which I imagine is likely Paradox's none-too-subtle way of telling us not to get all hyped up about random stuff that shows up on SteamDB.
Such a toleration mechanic could actually be a nice alternative to painting the map with your religion or you culture. I like it.
"Songs of the Northern Trolls" pretty much tell us what it is though. Northern trolling :rofl:
I hereby demand that Paradox release a video of their staff singing the Trollolol song in chorus as soon as is convenient.
I'd just like to point out that pretty much every time they release one of the major DLCs its accompanied by a fist full of portrait and song packs to go with it. So while those halloween themed names most likely arent real, there would be a new DLC coming out soon. Steam isn't in the habit of just assigning app #s to jokes.
And yet the "Sons of Abraham" depot has been removed. If it was one pack or 2, I could see it been an halloween-themed graphical or SI-ish dlc, but 4 of them?
it could very well be deliberate... I smell Groogy's scent on this Sons of Abraham may still be a real thing regardless, mayb they just want people to save the debate to after the dlc is announced or something... I mean would they really plant a fake app and wait till the forums bit just for a practical joke?... (Disclaimer: I dunno how Steam's depot works and wether or not you can add apps without telling Valve, if you always need to go through Valve, most likely they wouldnt waste their time with this).
As for the pogroms, what exactly to do think is happening when you send your court chaplain to convert a province? Do you think he's actually talking to people? Convincing them? Try something like expulsions, forced convertions and bonfires.
During this timeframe pogroms not endorsed by a noble were most often looting specifically aimed at the jewish community, until that source dried up and they started looting whatever. In CK2 you only really need to portrait it as a malus on a province that you get if youre too welcoming of jews, and possibly drying up of whatever benefits the jewish community was granting you in that province.
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It hasn't been removed, just renamed (id #226667 still is there). They probably finally noticed that SteamDB foiled their attempt to keep projects secret until announce, and gave codenames instead.
Ha, yes that does make sense.
Still, 5 dlc is alot even for a CK2 release, unless theyre already assigning app # to future dlcs (future as in, after the next one).
Regardless, if thats the case, the cat's out of the bag for that one
My bad. Not familiar with Mandean. I assumed it was an autocorrect typo.
Really disappointed by this, Paradox! The Underworld Invasion DLC should really focus on creatures that are undead and live in the Underworld! Like skeletons and zombies, and maybe ghosts! Trolls and Vampires does not live under the world! This is so wrong!! Trolls live under bridges and vampires live in coffins, even a kid knows this! If this DLC doesn't include skeletons and zombies it will be the worst DLC ever! And Witches and Wizards have nothing with the Underworld to do! I thought Paradox games was about realism. I guess I was wrong. And why are the Vampires sparkly?? It doesn't make sense. Sparkly vampires will ruin my life! I also don't like that Paradox yet again is owerpowering Sweden!! First the Old gods was only about Norse Vikings, and now we will only get Northern Trolls!! What about the Polish Trolls?? Polish Trolls were very powerful also during this era. I demand answers!
To a point it is, the Bible is a complex tome of many thousands of years of history to it. Abrahamic religions will be touched on. Or is it sparkly vampires?
Bible is a book with stories. Some stories are based on actual events, but there's a lot of fiction in it. Stories get changed after being told for generations. That makes them unreliable. Therefore, Bible can't be considered 100% a history book.
Of course, if you have any knowledge of ancient and pre-Hellenic Greece, ancient Egypt, etc., that you take as fact, you're guilty of a bias towards manuscripts that show an astronomically larger rate of entropy than any part of the Bible, including those that are of a much older age, as calculated from manuscripts written thousands of years apart.
And not to be 'that guy', as I realize Europe doesn't have the same rights as the US does, but refusing to put swastikas in WWII games, and getting up in arms when they're seen on the forum, is just as much historical revisionism as anything else. I'm not blaming PI, as they have to abide by European law, but banning swastikas and usage of terms like "Sudetenland" doesn't make up for anything.