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Yxklyx

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I have a Merchant Republic in Cherson but the capital is not Cherson. Why would I not be able to grant the Doge the Kingdom of Taurica. Is it because the realm's capital needs to be in the dejure county?
 

Tom013

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I have a Merchant Republic in Cherson but the capital is not Cherson. Why would I not be able to grant the Doge the Kingdom of Taurica. Is it because the realm's capital needs to be in the dejure county?

As far as I know, you have never been able to grant kingdom-level titles to Merchant Republics, period.
 

aitaituo

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As far as I know, you have never been able to grant kingdom-level titles to Merchant Republics, period.

Merchant republics can grant kingdoms to merchant republics. The restriction is that you can't grant king titles to different government type characters, so if Yxklyx is feudal or tribal, that is why the kingdom can't be granted.

Destroy the kingdom then grant enough counties or transfer enough vassals to give the doge 51% of Taurica and he'll create it himself. Just make sure he has two duke titles as well.
 

Tom013

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Merchant republics can grant kingdoms to merchant republics. The restriction is that you can't grant king titles to different government type characters, so if Yxklyx is feudal or tribal, that is why the kingdom can't be granted.

Destroy the kingdom then grant enough counties or transfer enough vassals to give the doge 51% of Taurica and he'll create it himself. Just make sure he has two duke titles as well.

Merchant Republics can't HAVE merchant republics under them. They can have (inland) Republics which are not the same thing.
 

hamlet had an uncle

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As an emperor, I pressed a kingdom claim for a claimant I had installed as a mayor in a Danish county. I won and England turned into a Serene Republic with its capital in that danish city. All the English dukes were vassals to the Doge but he just controlled that one city. When I raised his levies, they appeared in that province rather than in England and his courtiers were "in court" there. I still held the county title. Usually AI leaders will try to usurp the de jure capital of their top-level title, but in this case the de jure capital was held by a duke-level vassal and for whatever reason he didn't/wouldn't retract it. Sooo...

If one of my vassals has his capital in one of my province, just in a lower holding, will it still contribute tech points? If his advisors are working in that province do they supplement mine? What about entities that have courts and advisors and are bound to specific provinces but start out with no de jure holdings, like mercenary groups, holy orders and the various titular duchy level religious leaders like the Monophysite pope? Do they contribute tech points to that province too?
 

aitaituo

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Yes, they will spend tech points for that province. It's one of the reasons Constantinople tends to stay ahead of everyone.
 

hamlet had an uncle

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Yes, they will spend tech points for that province. It's one of the reasons Constantinople tends to stay ahead of everyone.

This is true even for entities that are not your vassals and for unlanded entities like the Monophysite and Miaphysite popes under Muslim occupation and mercenary companies? Because there are a couple provinces like Alexandria that have two or three unlanded duchy-level entities residing in them; Emba and Yaik each have four different mercenary companies based out of them, but I never hear about Yaik being too far ahead in tech.

If so you could really game the system by giving Rome to the Fraticellis just to generate a Fraticelli pope before taking it back again so that he will remain in residence adding those tech points. Rome could potentially accommodate at least nine different kingdom and duchy-level entities (your capital, pope, fraticelli pope, hospitallers, a church held by an archbishop who has lost all his other holdings/holds a titular title, and four merchant republics)

If so, if an unlanded entity becomes landed (e.g. Grandmaster of a holy order is granted a barony somewhere) do they continue to have their capital at the default province or do they switch to the new holding?

I enfiefed a German Catholic mercenary company (they had rebelled and taken somebody's county so I found a claimant and pressed his claim) and landed them in a barony in my Miaphysite Ethiopian capital. 200 years later their elected captains were still German Catholics and I'm unable to demand that they change religions. They have some Miaphysite Ethiopian courtiers but none of them ever get elected. When I tried landing them in a duchy instead they actually converted all the provinces in it to Catholicism. I assume this is because they were generating their courtier pool from the province culture and religion of their default capital in Germany despite not having any holdings there; does this mean they're also spending their tech points in that province?
 
Last edited:

aitaituo

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Patricians are baron tier by default, so they generate no tech points unless they have been given a duke title, which generally means their capital has moved. I know for sure that the Ecumenical Patriarch will spend the tech points, I guess I haven't checked on holy order leaders and other duke-tier religious heads, but in theory they should.

Maybe unlanded characters won't spend/generate tech points?

Holy orders will move their capital if they are landed, as will any other unlanded title. They only reside in their scripted capital if they are unlanded or happen to have land in the same place. Holy orders will only change religions if their parent religion becomes a heresy and their culture can change when a new leader is elected. Mercenaries, however, will always have their scripted religion and their culture is tied to culture of their scripted capital province and anyone elected will immediately switch culture. If you want a mercenary company to change cultures, you'll have to figure out what that province is and then culture convert it.
 

hamlet had an uncle

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Do patrician families pass down duchy titles to the next patrician? You could easily manipulate it to have each patrician family in a republic get a duchy and then lose the territories associated with it.
 

hamlet had an uncle

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Have an empire with low crown authority; grant each patrician a county inside the de jure territory of one of your other vassals; grant each now-landed patrician an unrelated duchy inside a kingdom you hold directly but don't give them any of the associated counties (or grant them a titular duchy title if you have any lying around); watch as your other vassals press their de jure claims on the patricians' counties; I think that would result in a bunch of unlanded patricians with ducal titles residing in the capital of the merchant republic. Now I really want to start a game to try this out.

Since mercs and holy orders are duchy-tier, if you grant a city to the title claimant to a holy order or mercenary company and then press the claim, will the mercenary company or holy order become a merchant republic? What if you grant the claimant a bishopric instead?
 

Tom013

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Have an empire with low crown authority; grant each patrician a county inside the de jure territory of one of your other vassals; grant each now-landed patrician an unrelated duchy inside a kingdom you hold directly but don't give them any of the associated counties (or grant them a titular duchy title if you have any lying around); watch as your other vassals press their de jure claims on the patricians' counties; I think that would result in a bunch of unlanded patricians with ducal titles residing in the capital of the merchant republic. Now I really want to start a game to try this out.

That might work temporarily, but eventually the person who held the land associated with the duchy would create it or the patricians would use their massive amounts of money to push their own claims. You could probably fiddle with it and prevent this, but it seems like a big pain for little gain. What do you gain by having the merchant republic with a capital that is not your capital improving tech quickly? Sure, it may help the spread of tech, but an amount that matters? And you better not keep any of his de jure counts lest he get pissy every time he gets elected. All in all, it seems like a lot of fiddly effort to min/max something that need not be min/maxed.

And again, not something I'd call "easy" -- you're still relying on the AI to win de jure claims against wealthy patricians AND hamstringing yourself to Low Crown authority until it happens.
 

hamlet had an uncle

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No, their capital is your capital. You land a title claimant in a city in your capital county and then press their claim. Voila, merchant republic, capital holding is a city in the same county as yours.
 

Tom013

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No, their capital is your capital. You land a title claimant in a city in your capital county and then press their claim. Voila, merchant republic, capital holding is a city in the same county as yours.

Feel free to try it, but a Doge will move his capital to the de jure capital of his merchant republic if possible, which will likely eventually happen. And your capital has to be coastal. I still hold that your process is convoluted. I never said it was impossible, simply tedious and not worth it unless you just want to prove it can be done.
 

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Coming back to CK2 after a very long break. Is there a way for me to view the title of a de jure kingdom? I am playing Neapoli and have duchies of Sicily and Neapolis, I want to grab/create kingdom of sicily, but can't find the title to create/claim it in the interface. Thanks in advance.
 

ImpBattery

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Coming back to CK2 after a very long break. Is there a way for me to view the title of a de jure kingdom? I am playing Neapoli and have duchies of Sicily and Neapolis, I want to grab/create kingdom of sicily, but can't find the title to create/claim it in the interface. Thanks in advance.

A picture is better than my poor english :

http://lparchive.org/Crusader-Kings-2/Update 02/2-1_12.png

Select one of your duchies, check the "De jure" box and you should have the kingdom title appear on top of "Claimants" and "History"