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    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Phibs

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Hmm..
Tested it several times, let the game run ten days first, then killed him through console and the title remains inside your realm and gets inherited
by Gerhard Chatenois, the duke of Upper Lorraine, just as it says in the tooltip before death.

PS: Still i recognised , that before letting the game run a few days , that initially it is indeed mentioning the king of Jeruasalem as heir
and that he also indeed inherits, AS LONG as i don't let the game run a bit before killing the king of Lotharingia.

Probably that old bug/issue where the game doesn't recalculate inheirtance in time or correctly and where reloading often helps.
Might be a memory issue, might be a scheduling inheritance check issue, i don't know..

You could still report it.
Can't hurt. Who knows, maybe we still get a patch some day and maybe they'll do find a way to address the issue.
Dreams can't hurt, even the cruel ones.
Ach, I done messed up. I forgot the HRE comes with princely elective. I'll craft a new one.
 

Phibs

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Hmm..
Tested it several times, let the game run ten days first, then killed him through console and the title remains inside your realm and gets inherited
by Gerhard Chatenois, the duke of Upper Lorraine, just as it says in the tooltip before death.

PS: Still i recognised , that before letting the game run a few days , that initially it is indeed mentioning the king of Jeruasalem as heir
and that he also indeed inherits, AS LONG as i don't let the game run a bit before killing the king of Lotharingia.

Probably that old bug/issue where the game doesn't recalculate inheirtance in time or correctly and where reloading often helps.
Might be a memory issue, might be a scheduling inheritance check issue, i don't know..

You could still report it.
Can't hurt. Who knows, maybe we still get a patch some day and maybe they'll do find a way to address the issue.
Dreams can't hurt, even the cruel ones.
I figure it out. Kill 460570. It works if the vassal has primogeniture. Then the inheritance calculation doesn't care about regulated inheritance, apparently. :mad:
 

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Aardvark Bellay

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Ach, I done messed up. I forgot the HRE comes with princely elective. I'll craft a new one.
Huh ?
I didn't knew that princely elective would affect that, when it's for the head honcho only.
Did you refer to elective, which Lotharingia was under ?

I figure it out. Kill 460570. It works if the vassal has primogeniture. Then the inheritance calculation doesn't care about regulated inheritance, apparently. :mad:
Indeed.
Even letting it run for a month didn#t change a thing and the king of J inherited Aragon.
Looks like a bug, smells like a bug.....must be a hidden intended feature !


I don't know of an exception for crusader states, so i'd say it's not intended
...and a stinking, slimy, hairy bug with many feet instead. Like that picture ?
 
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Phibs

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Huh ?
I didn't knew that princely elective would affect that, when it's for the head honcho only.
Did you refer to elective, which Lotharingia was under ?
Yes, that's correct. I spawned as the head honcho, created the kingdom thereby making it elective. Should've figured, but didn't :/

Indeed.
Even letting it run for a month didn#t change a thing and the king of J inherited Aragon.
Looks like a bug, smells like a bug.....must be a hidden intended feature !


I don't know of an exception for crusader states, so i'd say it's not intended
...and a stinking, slimy, hairy bug with many feet instead. Like that picture ?
You, sir, are a poet :D
I'd report it but they make you jump through too many hoops and chances are that this close to III, they're not gonna bother with fixing bugs for II.
 

Aardvark Bellay

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You, sir, are a poet :D
Schiller, no less...or that austrian-czech insurance accountant.

....and chances are that this close to III, they're not gonna bother with fixing bugs for II.
NOoo, don't say that ! *cries*
 

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Anyone got tips for forging the conquest bloodline? Winning 15 foreign wars seems difficult given truces.
 

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Anyone got tips for forging the conquest bloodline? Winning 15 foreign wars seems difficult given truces.
Depends on where you're fighting. If you're in a fragmented land surrounded by religious enemies, it's actually quite easy. Being pagan helps (or Hindu, Muslim, or Buddhist) because they have county conquest.

ETA: Quick example: Jorvik. You start off at war, and once your first war is done, you can start county conquesting all the little English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish powers as you please. Running 15 such wars is quick and easy.
 
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Anyone got tips for forging the conquest bloodline? Winning 15 foreign wars seems difficult given truces.
One important thing to remember is I'm pretty sure it doesn't count de jure claims, for instance if you created Ireland with only Ulster not part of the de jure kingdom yet, when you go to war with a de jure claim, it doesn't count as a "foreign" war.
 

GeorgieBest

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One important thing to remember is I'm pretty sure it doesn't count de jure claims, for instance if you created Ireland with only Ulster not part of the de jure kingdom yet, when you go to war with a de jure claim, it doesn't count as a "foreign" war.
I can't say for sure if that is the case. I'm ashamed to say I ended up just using extort tribute CBs on small kingdoms around me and releasing them over again. The truce is only a year long and it doesn't generate threat. I wanted to get the bloodline without abusing gamey tactics, but I'd had too many attempts end from a ruler dying.
 
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I can't say for sure if that is the case. I'm ashamed to say I ended up just using extort tribute CBs on small kingdoms around me and releasing them over again. The truce is only a year long and it doesn't generate threat. I wanted to get the bloodline without abusing gamey tactics, but I'd had too many attempts end from a ruler dying.
Rulers dying while you're going for the ambition is always a pain. I've found though that it's harder than not to get the war bloodline, since I often use wars to build up the prestige in the first place. It isn't uncommon when I'm going for a bloodline to just get a war one immediately upon taking the ambition. I'd just done so many tributary wars to gather the prestige in the first place.
 

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^ I just got that :(
First bloodline, took some time deciding i wanted murder/builder, then poof, conqueror...
 

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Rulers dying while you're going for the ambition is always a pain. I've found though that it's harder than not to get the war bloodline, since I often use wars to build up the prestige in the first place. It isn't uncommon when I'm going for a bloodline to just get a war one immediately upon taking the ambition. I'd just done so many tributary wars to gather the prestige in the first place.
I thought only wars after you take the ambition count?
 

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I thought only wars after you take the ambition count?
No, all of the forge bloodline counters are lifetime counters.

The only exception is "years at peace", which starts when you take the ambition. (And, annoyingly, the counter resets to zero every time there's a war - even a defensive war. Which makes peace bloodlines arguably the most difficult to obtain.)
 
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No, all of the forge bloodline counters are lifetime counters.

The only exception is "years at peace", which starts when you take the ambition. (And, annoyingly, the counter resets to zero every time there's a war - even a defensive war. Which makes peace bloodlines arguably the most difficult to obtain.)
It doesn't reset and keeps counting, however, if you're an ally in someone else's war, though, so that helps.
 

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It doesn't reset and keeps counting, however, if you're an ally in someone else's war, though, so that helps.
Indeed. I think it might only be reset if you are primary attacker/defender? But I'm not sure.

I think in theory the best way to get a peace bloodline is to be a vassal (because you are unlikely to be attacked - ie. unlikely to be primary defender). Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to get the prerequisite huge amount of prestige as a vassal.

Also worth noting: I had a weird situation where: (i) a 0-year-old child became king (under a regency, obviously); (ii) he went to war a LOT; (iii) he took the ambition at age 13; (iv) he was immediately credited with 12 years of peace. In other words: childhood regency = peace?!
 

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I think in theory the best way to get a peace bloodline is to be a vassal (because you are unlikely to be attacked - ie. unlikely to be primary defender). Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to get the prerequisite huge amount of prestige as a vassal.
I recently did it with Ida Konradiner, daughter of Hermann of Swabia, 936. Hermann had taken Franconia in a papal claim (the present duke of Franconia was dynastic, but a kinslayer) so when Ida inherited, she was the most powerful vassal in Germany. Then, she ruled for 50 years, enough time to rise to the top of the Hermetics, take Upper Lorraine from Lotharingia twice, expand into Transjurania, get her family to be duke of Saxony and king of Germany, and have the prestige necessary to get the Peace/Architect bloodline. When all was said and done, her heir was her great-grandson.

Of course, being a matrilineal bloodline is woefully inconvenient, but whatever.
 

ThePettyQueen

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Anybody know for sure if you can restore the Roman Empire as a merchant republic without succession wonkiness? I know the BE title can be destroyed and recreated, but that sounds like a risky thing to try with the RE. If you already have the BE as your primary with MR government and succession, will the RE follow suit or is it hard-coded to be imperial elective?

(I just want to be a Lombard Waldensian merchant republic SPQR Rome, is that too much to ask?)
 
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Anybody know for sure if you can restore the Roman Empire as a merchant republic without succession wonkiness? I know the BE title can be destroyed and recreated, but that sounds like a risky thing to try with the RE. If you already have the BE as your primary with MR government and succession, will the RE follow suit or is it hard-coded to be imperial elective?

(I just want to be a Lombard Waldensian merchant republic SPQR Rome, is that too much to ask?)
It is very difficult to know for sure without actually trying it out.

However, from looking at the code, I think that you can indeed reform Rome as an MR (with MR succession), and I think you're unlikely to have any particularly troubling weirdness:
  • The decision to restore Rome (...\decisions\realm_decisions.txt > restore_roman_empire) has virtually no content
Code:
    restore_roman_empire = {
        only_independent = yes
        is_high_prio = yes
        ai_check_interval = 24

        potential = {
            is_playable = yes
            has_dlc = "Legacy of Rome"
            has_landed_title = e_byzantium
            OR = {
                religion_group = christian
                religion = hellenic_pagan
                religion = hellenic_pagan_reformed
            }
            is_adult = yes
            prisoner = no
            NOT = { trait = incapable }
            NOT = { has_global_flag = rome_restored }
            NOR = {
                has_alternate_start_parameter = { key = religion_names value = random }
            }
        }
        allow = {
            primary_title = { title = e_byzantium }
            prestige = 3000
            completely_controls = d_latium
            completely_controls = d_venice
            completely_controls = d_ferrara
            completely_controls = d_sicily
            completely_controls = d_genoa
            completely_controls = d_capua
            completely_controls = d_apulia
            completely_controls = d_thrace
            completely_controls = d_antioch
            completely_controls = d_jerusalem
            completely_controls = d_alexandria
            completely_controls = d_athens
            completely_controls = d_tunis
            completely_controls = d_croatia
        }
        effect = {
            set_global_flag = rome_restored
            narrative_event = { id = LoR.20 tooltip = EVTTOOLTIPLoR.20 }
        }
        ai_will_do = {
            factor = 1
        }
    }
  • The event that does the "heavy lifting" for the restoration (...\events\roman_events.txt > LoR.20) has nothing that enforces succession laws.
    • In fact, it looks like all laws are forcibly copied from e_byzantium. So, if e_byzantium is a MR then e_roman_empire should also be a MR.
Code:
### Roman Empire Restored

# The Restoration of Rome
narrative_event = {
    id = LoR.20
    title = EVTNAMELoR.20
    desc = {
        text = EVTDESCLoR.20
        trigger = {
            is_alternate_start = no
        }
    }
    desc = {
        text = EVTDESCLoR20_HF
        trigger = {
            is_alternate_start = yes
        }
    }

    picture = GFX_evt_rome_restored_byzantine

    is_triggered_only = yes

    immediate = {
        if = {
            limit = {
                ai = no
            }
            set_character_flag = achievement_legacy_of_rome
        }
    }

    option = {
        name = EVTOPTALoR.20
        hidden_tooltip = {
            primary_title = {
                any_direct_de_jure_vassal_title = {
                    de_jure_liege = e_roman_empire
                }
            }
        }
        e_roman_empire = {
            show_scope_change = no
            grant_title = ROOT
            hidden_tooltip = { make_primary_title = yes }
            copy_title_laws = e_byzantium
            copy_title_history = e_byzantium
        }
        e_byzantium = {
            show_scope_change = no
            destroy_landed_title = THIS
        }
        hidden_tooltip = {
            activate_title = { title = e_byzantium status = no }
            any_playable_ruler = {
                limit = {
                    NOT = { has_landed_title = e_byzantium }
                    ai = no
                }
                narrative_event = { id = LoR.21 }
            }
            if = { #Hellenic Resurgence
                limit = {
                    has_dlc = "Holy Fury"
                    religion_group = christian
                    has_game_rule = {
                        name = hellenism_rule
                        value = on
                    }
                    OR = {
                        culture = greek
                        culture = italian
                        culture = roman
                    }
                }
                character_event = { id = HF.23106 days = 15 }       
            }
            if = { #Burn and Rebuild Rome.
                limit = {
                    has_dlc = "Holy Fury"
                    333 = { any_province_holding = { holding_type = temple count = 2 } } #Check if Gengis Khan or whomever hasn't already leveled the place down.
                }
                333 = { province_event = { id = HF.23100 days = 155 } }       
            }
        }
        add_trait = augustus
        give_nickname = nick_the_glorious
        if = { #New Imperial Bloodline. (male)
                limit = {
                    has_dlc = "Holy Fury"
                    is_female = no
                    is_alternate_start = no
                    OR = {
                        religion_group = christian
                        religion = hellenic_pagan
                        religion = hellenic_pagan_reformed
                    }
                    NOT = {
                        any_owned_bloodline = {
                            has_bloodline_flag = roman_bloodline #Not if already member of a famous historical Roman Bloodline.
                        }
                    }
                }
                create_bloodline = {
                    type = roman_emperor_male
                }
                new_bloodline = {
                    set_description = "bloodline_desc_roman"
                }
                sound_effect = bloodline_added   
            }
        if = { #New Imperial Bloodline. (female)
            limit = {
                has_dlc = "Holy Fury"
                is_female = yes
                is_alternate_start = no
                OR = {
                    religion_group = christian
                    religion = hellenic_pagan
                    religion = hellenic_pagan_reformed
                }
                NOT = {
                    any_owned_bloodline = {
                        has_bloodline_flag = roman_bloodline #Not if already member of a famous historical Roman Bloodline.
                    }
                }
            }
            create_bloodline = {
                type = roman_emperor_female
            }
            new_bloodline = {
                set_description = "bloodline_desc_roman"
            }       
            sound_effect = bloodline_added
        }
    }
}
  • There is nothing obviously worrying in ...\common\landed_titles\landed_titles.txt
Code:
e_roman_empire = {
    color={ 143 12 100 }
    color2={ 255 255 20 }

    capital = 333 # Rome

    short_name = yes

    purple_born_heirs = yes

    culture = roman
    #religion = orthodox

    allow = {
        always = no # Only created through special event
    }
}

e_byzantium = {
    color={ 143 12 125 }
    color2={ 255 255 20 }

    capital = 496 # Byzantion

    short_name = yes

    title = "BASILEUS_TITLE"
    title_female = "BASILEUS_TITLE_FEMALE"

    dignity = 10

    culture = greek

    has_top_de_jure_capital = yes

    purple_born_heirs = yes

    allow = {
        conditional_tooltip = {
            trigger = {
                e_roman_empire = {
                    has_holder = yes
                }
            }
            e_roman_empire = {
                has_holder = no
            }
        }
        conditional_tooltip = {
            trigger = {
                e_latin_empire = {
                    has_holder = yes
                }
            }
            e_latin_empire = {
                has_holder = no
            }
        }
        OR = {
            religion = orthodox
            religion_openly_hellenic_or_reformed_trigger = yes
        }
    }

**SNIP de jure tree
  • There is no explicit block on MRs holding Rome (...\common\governments\republic_governments.txt).
Code:
    merchant_republic_government = {
        preferred_holdings = { CITY }
        allowed_holdings = {
            TRADE_POST
            CITY
            CASTLE
            FAMILY_PALACE
            FORT
            HOSPITAL
        }
        allowed_holdings_culture = { # Will not get the wrong government type penalty for tribes of the same culture
            TRIBAL
        }
        accepts_liege_governments = { # Accepts other republics
            republic_government
        }
        free_revoke_on_governments_religion = { # Tribal vassals of other religions can have their titles revoked for free
            tribal_government
        }
        frame_suffix = "_merchantrepublic"
        title_prefix = "city_"
        potential = {
            OR = {
                controls_religion = no
                religion_group = muslim
                has_religion_feature = religion_temporal_head
                AND = {
                    religion = norse_pagan_reformed
                    has_religion_features = no # Old saves, and campaigns without HF, need the Fylkirate to continue working
                }
            }
            #is_female = no
            OR = {
                AND = {
                    is_patrician = yes
                    OR = {
                        liege_before_war = {
                            NOT = { character = PREV }
                            is_merchant_republic = yes
                            NOT = {
                                liege_before_war = {
                                    NOT = { character = PREV }
                                    is_merchant_republic = yes
                                }
                            }
                        }
                        has_game_started = no
                    }
                }
                AND = {
                    OR = {
                        AND = {
                            has_game_started = yes
                            is_merchant_republic = yes
                        }
                        capital_scope = { port = yes }
                    }
                    higher_real_tier_than = count
                    any_demesne_province = {
                        always = yes
                    }
                    NOT = {
                        liege_before_war = {
                            NOT = { character = PREV }
                            is_merchant_republic = yes
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }

        color = { 250 0 0 }

        merchant_republic = yes

        can_imprison_without_reason = no
        can_revoke_without_reason = no
        can_usurp_kingdoms_and_empires = no
        have_gender_laws = no
        can_grant_kingdoms_and_empires_to_other_government = yes
        allows_matrilineal_marriage = no
        uses_bride_price = yes

        can_build_tribal = no

        landed_inheritance = no

        capital_move_delay = 600

        ## Modifiers
        court_size_modifier = 5
        court_size_maintenance_cost_modifier = -0.05
    }
  • Aside: Note that Imperial government seems to be permitted for Byzantium and Rome, but not enforced (...\common\governments\feudal_governments.txt).
    • I suspect that the government type is normally forced when the title is formed (either via event or decision).
    • Also note that patricians are explicitly blocked from Imperial government.
Code:
    roman_imperial_government = {
        preferred_holdings = { CASTLE CITY }
        allowed_holdings = {
            CASTLE
            CITY
            FORT
            HOSPITAL
        }
        allowed_holdings_culture = { # Will not get the wrong government type penalty for tribes of the same culture
            TRIBAL
        }
        accepts_liege_governments = { # Gets the wrong religion modifier instead
            feudal_government
            republic_government
            merchant_republic_government
        }
        free_revoke_on_governments_religion = { # Tribal vassals of other religions can have their titles revoked for free
            tribal_government
        }
        frame_suffix = "_romanimperial"
        potential = {
            OR = {
                AND = {
                    is_save_game = no
                    has_game_started = no
                    primary_title = {
                        OR = {
                            title = e_byzantium
                            title = e_roman_empire
                        }
                    }
                }
                AND = {
                    primary_title = {
                        OR = {
                            title = e_byzantium
                            title = e_roman_empire
                        }
                        has_law = succ_byzantine_elective
                    }
                }
            }
            is_patrician = no
        }

        color = { 143 12 125 }

        barons_need_dynasty = yes

        can_build_tribal = no

        ignore_in_vassal_limit_calculation = {
            tribal_government
        }
        capital_move_delay = 2000

        can_usurp_kingdoms_and_empires = no
        can_imprison_without_reason = no
        can_create_empires = no
        vassal_government_opinion_penalties = no
        can_grant_kingdoms_and_empires_to_other_government_group = yes
        can_be_granted_kingdoms_and_empires_by_other_government = no
        free_retract_vassalage = yes

        ## Modifiers
        court_size_modifier = 15
    }
}

You should keep access to Born in the Purple, but I don't think this is likely to affect MR succession (which is solely dependent on age and cash). And, as always with MRs, you go absolute cognatic (ie. female Doge) at your own risk!
 
Last edited:

EllisDee

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Is there any incentive as an Iqta Muslim to have clergy as top-tier vassals? I.e., counts/dukes whose capital holding is a mosque. Or should i just have everyone as a normal barony capital holding (besides the odd MR from a city-duke)?
 

WJS

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Is there any incentive as an Iqta Muslim to have clergy as top-tier vassals? I.e., counts/dukes whose capital holding is a mosque. Or should i just have everyone as a normal barony capital holding (besides the odd MR from a city-duke)?
A vassal who holds a mosque under Iqta is the equivalent of a vassal who holds a castle. They aren't clergy; they're just more Iqta vassals.
 
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