Crusader Kings II Preview on Adrenaline Vault

[VenetianPriest]

Well, I think they are not done, but here's how they work so far.

A crusade is, in many ways, like a regular war. But it has some uniqueness.

Step 1) Pope calls a crusade against a specific county (say, Jerusalem or Acre).

Step 2) All Roman Catholics get a Crusade CB against the owner. Note that the Crusade CB is slightly different than the Holy War CB which you have at all times against non-Christians. The Crusade CB adds extra piety if you win.

Step 3) Rulers who think they're cool enough DOW the target. All wars are independent (meaning that if King A and King B are on crusade, their wars are separate).

Step 4) Your character arrives in the Holy Land (or general vicinity of the target). You get a trait "Crusader" adding +2 to martial and boosting your relations with clergy and other crusaders. Also, since you are in the area of the Crusade Target, the game recognizes this. Bishops and the Pope like you more. You are also immunized from "Hey, dummy, go on crusade" events.

Step 5) Fight battles, win sieges, kick butt.

Step 6) Force the enemy to give you the crusade target in the peace treaty.

Step 7) Profit! (Which currently includes a pile of prestige and piety)

So, I wonder if Constantinople is considered the general vicinity when the crusading target is Egypt...

 

[Secret Master]

So, I wonder if Constantinople is considered the general vicinity when the crusading target is Egypt...

Well, I am not sure, but I think I have only gotten the Crusader trait when stepping into a non-Christian province, so lounging around in Byzantium ain't going to cut it. But the exact rules are a mystery to me.

 

[VenetianPriest]

Well, I am not sure, but I think I have only gotten the Crusader trait when stepping into a non-Christian province, so lounging around in Byzantium ain't going to cut it. But the exact rules are a mystery to me.

Here's hoping that the game won't reward crusaders that go way off course and attack another Christian realm. I just makes me wonder if the Fourth Crusader or anything resembling it will happen in CKII. Speaking of which, will the Pope be able to unilaterally excommuincate characterrs? That is, will he do so without the intervention of a playabbe character? Innocent III certainly did against the crusaders that sacked Constantinople.

 

[Secret Master]

The Pope can excommunicate you via event without the intervention of other characters. I got excommunicated the other day because I refused to adopt Papal Investiture. (Note: I had the last laugh, as I backed an anti-pope and deposed the old Pope.)

I don't know if they will make events about excommunicating crusaders who go awry. You are certainly not rewarded for it. You get a big fat nothing if you DOW the crusade target then never attack or do anything useful.

 

[vertinox]

Vassals may only DOW each other if crown authority is LESS than a certain point. (Also, vassals may DOW foreign entities at a different crown authority.) If crown authority is too high, they simply are not allowed to do so. Your liege cannot intervene if vassal wars are valid

Hrm.... So can you explain that in more detail.

For example, if France's crown authority isn't high enough, then the France's Duke of Flanders can declare war on England's Duke of Normandy.

Now, by default does the King of France stay uninvolved? Would the King of England automatically be involved depending on crown authority or would that be an automatic DoW to protect the Duke of Normandy?

Also, if things went bad for the Duke of Flanders, could he ask the King of France to join his war but still be in charge of peace negotiations or would the King of France take over?

 

[Andrzej I]

If I might ask, how do Crusader States work out? Is it like CK1, where the conquered counties stick with the ruler who conquered them, leading to an English Egypt or a French Levant? Or do we see independent states pop up from the end of the crusade, hopefully resulting in states similar to history, like an actual Kingdom of Jerusalem, etc. Thanks in advance!

 

[unmerged(193360)]

For example, if France's crown authority isn't high enough, then the France's Duke of Flanders can declare war on England's Duke of Normandy.

Now, by default does the King of France stay uninvolved? Would the King of England automatically be involved depending on crown authority or would that be an automatic DoW to protect the Duke of Normandy.

You can't declare war on a vassal in a different realm, so if the duke of Flanders has some issue with the duke of Normandy he has to declare war on the king of England to settle it.

 

[Orinsul]

The Pope can excommunicate you via event without the intervention of other characters. I got excommunicated the other day because I refused to adopt Papal Investiture. (Note: I had the last laugh, as I backed an anti-pope and deposed the old Pope.)

I don't know if they will make events about excommunicating crusaders who go awry. You are certainly not rewarded for it. You get a big fat nothing if you DOW the crusade target then never attack or do anything useful.

The Controversy is in? or just general investitude?

 

[Secret Master]

Hrm.... So can you explain that in more detail.

For example, if France's crown authority isn't high enough, then the France's Duke of Flanders can declare war on England's Duke of Normandy.

Now, by default does the King of France stay uninvolved? Would the King of England automatically be involved depending on crown authority or would that be an automatic DoW to protect the Duke of Normandy?

Also, if things went bad for the Duke of Flanders, could he ask the King of France to join his war but still be in charge of peace negotiations or would the King of France take over?

If a vassal declares an independent war, then they cannot just ask their liege to bail them out. Also, you cannot DOW vassals. You have to DOW their liege with your claim, so attacking the Duke of Normandy really means attacking the King of England, as he is obligated to defend his vassals.

However, lieges can often be creative in their diplomacy. I have declared independent wars against someone my vassal was attacking.

Something else to consider: You cannot annex people who attack you. If the Duke of Flanders attacks the Duke of Normandy over some claim, then England can't spank Flanders and annex them. Instead, the best England can do is beat Flanders and demand that they renounce their claim.

Your vassals do not have a license to commit suicide via independent wars, thankfully.

If I might ask, how do Crusader States work out? Is it like CK1, where the conquered counties stick with the ruler who conquered them, leading to an English Egypt or a French Levant? Or do we see independent states pop up from the end of the crusade, hopefully resulting in states similar to history, like an actual Kingdom of Jerusalem, etc. Thanks in advance!

I'll let the Devs answer that. There really doesn't seem to be a mechanic about that sort of thing at the moment AND the AI is not interested in giving lands away to the Templars and what not.

The Controversy is in? or just general investitude?

There do not appear to be event chains regarding the Controversy itself at the moment. Just general investiture stuff.

I will point out, though, that there are significant consequences to choosing either policy, regardless of the Pope's actions. Also, having free investiture in CK2 is much more interesting than in CK1 because you can actually nominate the specific successor to a bishopric yourself, not just get random courtier from your court appointed.

 

[Ruwaard]

If a vassal declares an independent war, then they cannot just ask their liege to bail them out. Also, you cannot DOW vassals. You have to DOW their liege with your claim, so attacking the Duke of Normandy really means attacking the King of England, as he is obligated to defend his vassals.

However, lieges can often be creative in their diplomacy. I have declared independent wars against someone my vassal was attacking.

Something else to consider: You cannot annex people who attack you. If the Duke of Flanders attacks the Duke of Normandy over some claim, then England can't spank Flanders and annex them. Instead, the best England can do is beat Flanders and demand that they renounce their claim.

Your vassals do not have a license to commit suicide via independent wars, thankfully.



I'll let the Devs answer that. There really doesn't seem to be a mechanic about that sort of thing at the moment AND the AI is not interested in giving lands away to the Templars and what not.



There do not appear to be event chains regarding the Controversy itself at the moment. Just general investiture stuff.

I will point out, though, that there are significant consequences to choosing either policy, regardless of the Pope's actions. Also, having free investiture in CK2 is much more interesting than in CK1 because you can actually nominate the specific successor to a bishopric yourself, not just get random courtier from your court appointed.

What if Flanders attacks Normandy, but Normandy and/or England have their own claims on Flanders?

 

[tajerio]

What if Flanders attacks Normandy, but Normandy and/or England have their own claims on Flanders?

If you read the dev diary on warfare and how pressing claims works, you'll find that it's necessary to be the aggressor in a war in order to secure a title to which one has a claim. Normandy or England would have to fight a new war to press their own claims on Flanders.

 

[InboxMadness]

If you read the dev diary on warfare and how pressing claims works, you'll find that it's necessary to be the aggressor in a war in order to secure a title to which one has a claim. Normandy or England would have to fight a new war to press their own claims on Flanders.

This is unfortunate.

 

[Secret Master]

What if Flanders attacks Normandy, but Normandy and/or England have their own claims on Flanders?

Nope. That's not what the war is about. In this case, the war is declared because of Flanders claims on Normandy. You can only resolve these claims in this war. If Normandy has its own claims, Normandy has to declare its own offensive war later OR England has to DOW Flanders using Normandy's claims OR England has to DOW later with its own claims.

This might seem a bit weird, but it does mean that there is no point in pointlessly dragging out wars. Just decide the current issue at hand, take the peace offer, and build up in anticipation of a future war. You can't turn a defensive war into an offensive war of annihilation. And remember, if you force them to drop their claims because you beat them, it's not like they can abuse the mechanic to keep DOWing you to preempt your own invasion. You have to have a legitimate reason to DOW, and forcing people to drop their claims is a way to force them to stop attacking you.

 

[Ruwaard]

If you read the dev diary on warfare and how pressing claims works, you'll find that it's necessary to be the aggressor in a war in order to secure a title to which one has a claim. Normandy or England would have to fight a new war to press their own claims on Flanders.

I have read it in August, but maybe I should reread that part .

 

[magritte2]

With the homosexual trait, is it just randomly distributed or are they actually assigning it to some characters for historical reasons? You could make a case for William Rufus in 1066.

 

[Nick B II]

With the homosexual trait, is it just randomly distributed or are they actually assigning it to some characters for historical reasons? You could make a case for William Rufus in 1066.

If everyone "you could make the case" for is gay in CK2 nobody will be straight.

Nick