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Secret Master

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I'm not sure I like this given the fact that most players play the grand campaign. AI William should definitely be victorious in most games. :eek:

Well, we can debate whether the Normans would have won the war if Harold managed to survive the battle. Regardless, if you start before William is king, there are several ways it can all go awry. The earliest start date is before Stamford Bridge, so there are some real complications available to everyone. The war is a three-way anyway, meaning that Harald and William will fight each other if their armies meet. If the Saxons choose a defense in depth strategy against both the Norwegians and Normans, it can be a long slog because everyone is fighting each other. And the Saxons can defeat William, only to lose to the Norwegians. And if the Saxons lose, but Harold gets away, they can try to raise more levies or mercenaries to continue the fight. And all of this assumes that none of the French vassals take the opportunity to attack Normandy while William is away. And this also assumes that the Norwegian vassals don't plot against Harald while he is away... Hell, the Welsh and Scots can attack Harold while he is fighting, making things even more complicated. And Brittany is independent in 1066, so there is yet another complication, if they are so inclined.

But there is a bookmark for a game start on the day William takes the throne. You lose a couple of months of gameplay and that's about it. So, if just can't handle a non-William England, just pick the right start date. It takes 2 whole seconds and you'll get the Europe you want.
 

Orinsul

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Ai william should usually win, so if youre playing hungary, youre changing history, not a pawn to someone elses change. Atleast the first generation should feel historical. so you can blame yourself for the new world born not day one historical, day two random. year seven being random, or even year three is ok. But day two and month four should be more or less historical expect where influenced by the actions of the player.
Conditions should be set up historically so historical consequences follow.
 
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Filip de Norre

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Personally I think most of my games will start at the "after Hastings" bookmark, except if I choose to play one of the three combatants.

I prefer the game to be as accurate at start as possible. But ain't the most realistic and accurate start that Harold has the best chance of winning? If he had been less reckless or just survived the battle he would have had the upper hand.

Of course the "historical" outcome has to have better odds for happening than it probably should have. For instance, IRL, Norway has 5% of winning, Harold 85% and William 10% I'd like to see something like 50% for William, 35% for Harold and 15% for Hardraada.

Personally I think it would be fun if I play Germany or France, and suddendly have to worry about the Norwegian Empire controlling the whole North Sea. Three (or perhaps more) so different outcomes so early, would make each game something different, instead of every game having an England who strives for France.
 

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Thanks for your great preview and listing of your favorite parts of the game! I've been anticipating this game for years now and I am very excited to see it shaping up to be a strategic masterpiece.
 

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1) I am interested in the building-up-your-lands aspect. How does that feel? Is it satisfying to build a thriving realm out of nothing, can you build infrastructure and medieval forms of industry like mines etc? Does a game in 1400, with more sophisticated infrastructure around, feel different than in 1100?

2) Do buildings have other effects than money and troops or recruitment speed? Like a bonus to technological advance. Or that they appear in certain events. And most importantly, do buildings affect the education of children in that province like they did in CKI? What about schools and universities, do they increase the chance of a more educated and capable child? Or is it only the guardian? Can you give the child into the care of a foreign ruler, so that he returns talking Italian? And what exactly is the education attribute?

3) Do epidemics other than "the plague", e.g. typhoid, influenza or dysentery spread to other provinces? In CKI they didn't, they stayed in their province. Can characters be infected with them?

4) Do you have the impression that women all look rather similar?
 
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unmerged(209891)

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I'm not sure I like this given the fact that most players play the grand campaign. AI William should definitely be victorious in most games. :eek:

Personally, I'll be treating the post-Conquest start date as the "default" Grand Campaign. I'll only start before that if I want to play one of the 3 factions in the conquest.
 

vertinox

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VenetianPriest

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I plan on loading after the Battle of Hastings and the death of Harold, and I will play as King Edgar. Edgar should be about 15 or 16 years old by this date. I know this will be a serious uphill battle for the Saxons to fight off William after his victory at Hastings, but the last dynastic member of the House of Wessex should have a chance to continue the dynasty. Perhaps I can gain the Scottish King as an ally against William by expediting the marriage of his sister Margaret to Malcom III. I'll have to assassinate his first wife to do so in 1066.
 

Secret Master

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1) I am interested in the building-up-your-lands aspect. How does that feel? Is it satisfying to build a thriving realm out of nothing, can you build infrastructure and medieval forms of industry like mines etc? Does a game in 1400, with more sophisticated infrastructure around, feel different than in 1100?

Well, tech, holdings, and buildings are probably in need of serious balancing. My last game as Novogord-->Rus, Lithuania, et al, saw me research one tech in my capital of Novogorod in 150 years of gameplay. I suspect that research and spread is a bit off. :)

That being said, buildings are unique by holding, but have some overlap. I'd like to tell you about city and bishop buildings, but I don't even own them long enough to look at their buildings. As for castle holdings, they are either fortifications (walls, gates, arrow slits, etc.), farming related (castle town), or troop related (training grounds, barracks, donjon, keep, etc.). They have interlocking dependencies, so I usually build a wooden palisade first because it unlocks some other things I like. (Yeah, a basic castle does not come equipped with a wooden palisade, so you really are starting at the low end with a new castle.)

There are cultural specific buildings, too. The Norman one is a squire list, which increases heavy cavalry. The Russian one is something I can't remember, but it increases heavy infantry. The heathens have their own. The Baltic pagans, in particular, have special buildings that substantially increase their number light infantry, making them a bit more dangerous than they were in CK1. (Since it's light infantry, a serious force with heavy infantry will generally still plow through them; the Teutonic Twits should have no problem conquering the Baltic pagans.)

Most buildings add either revenue, garrison, fortification level (which is not always tied to garrison size) or levy size. Castles generally have nice fortifications and levies. Also, just like Sengoku, levies that say home add to the garrison of the holding. This can make castles a rather tough nut to crack unless you brought half of Italy with you to the siege.

2) Do buildings have other effects than money and troops or recruitment speed? Like a bonus to technological advance. Or that they appear in certain events. And most importantly, do buildings affect the education of children in that province like they did in CKI? What about schools and universities, do they increase the chance of a more educated and capable child?

I don't know. Tool tips do not list any effects on education or technology. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it was running under the hood. Also, since research doesn't seem to be working properly at the moment, I would hesitate to speak on that subject.

Or is it only the guardian? Can you give the child into the care of a foreign ruler, so that he returns talking Italian? And what exactly is the education attribute?

Children may get the culture of their guardian, and even the guardian's religion. This is very important and something to keep in mind, if you don't want an Italian monophysite England. :D

The guardian of a child reacts to child events, making decisions about the child's traits. You can also give a child to another ruler, but I tend not to do so. I use betrothals to secure peace treaties. (I am wary of anyone educating my direct heirs except for my current ruler; I don't want someone else filling their head with nonsense.)

I have no idea how a child's final education is decided or what influences it. I can have a child educated by a Brilliant Strategist, and they end up as a Dutiful Cleric. Perhaps that is something else that is getting tweaked.

3) Do epidemics other than "the plague", e.g. typhoid, influenza or dysentery spread to other provinces? In CKI they didn't, they stayed in their province. Can characters be infected with them?

Yep. I had consumption tear through my realm this evening, killing courtiers and relatives.

Oh, and attrition in counties with diseases in them is atrocious. And since the diseases spread on the map, it might follow you around and ruin your offensive war.

4) Do you have the impression that women all look rather similar?

Not any more than the men. My screenshots don't show a lot of women on them. Looking at a list of potential brides shows a great variety. And, of course, female portraits age just like male portraits.

Personally, I'll be treating the post-Conquest start date as the "default" Grand Campaign. I'll only start before that if I want to play one of the 3 factions in the conquest.

That's what you should really do if you want a historical outcome. I do that about 50% of the time myself. I don't do it all the time because I either forget or don't care because I'm at the other end of the world.

Also, playing as Harold is a blast. I defeated William within a month the last time, but spent 10 years trying to throw the Norwegians out of York and the northern counties. It was an ugly, vicious war that devastated the countryside.

And then I took out the Welsh to make me feel better. :D
 

Orinsul

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And then I took out the Welsh to make me feel better. :D

Are the Leofriccsons any trouble when it comes to doing that? or in the game are they loyal vassals with no ties outside of the kingdom? CK or maybe DVIP had them allied which did a good job of setting that up.

Also do you get to try it out on account of being a reviewer? or how come? only im more than happy to pretend to be a reviewer if thatd work
 

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Are the Leofriccsons any trouble when it comes to doing that? or in the game are they loyal vassals with no ties outside of the kingdom? CK or maybe DVIP had them allied which did a good job of setting that up.

I'm not sure how they are set up in 1066, but by the time I got a chance to take them out, they were squabbling over Dyfed in a succession war, so my experience is probably nothing to go by. I am nothing if not opportunistic. :)

Also do you get to try it out on account of being a reviewer?

Yep. I've been reviewing games since 2007 for Adrenaline Vault. I've personally reviewed a number of Paradox titles, including CK: DV when it came out. I currently our only PC strategy game reviewer, so SOTS ][ is next on my list.

My editors are pretty good about getting me preview copies of stuff, and obviously I made sure they gave me a copy of this. :)

Have you played any games as the de Hautevilles yet? If so, are the Guiscard and Bohemond as awesome as they were in CK1?

I'm the Hautevilles right now. We're about a century in, and I'm a king five times over. It took about 20 years to consolidate control over southern Italy, Tripolitania, Tunisia, and Malta. :)
 

Secret Master

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Nice review! I picked up earlier that Kings can be vassals of Emporer's. Is this true?

Yes. I was a king 6 times over and still a vassal of the German Emperor.

Ditto for the other 3 empires, as far as I can tell.
 

takedown47

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i love the review. i badly want to know if it is theoretically possible to have a norse pagan kingdom of sweden. i know you cannot start the game as a pagan/muslim realm, but sweden in sepember 1066 starts with eric the heathen (norse pagan) as the father of the catholic king. after what you've said about getting kids educated by gaurdians might it be possible to send a future heir to hopefully become a pagan? if so then it might be possible through good diplomacy to get realm vassal and courtiers converted back to the old ways. that would be really cool ;)
 

A_Dane

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I'd personally prefer if the majority of the outcomes of the earliest start are random, the scenario with william as king of england should be close enough, not to bother people who want it to play out somewhat historical..
 

unmerged(52491)

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13) I had a great game as Anglo-Saxon England. But within 50 years, my ruling dynasty was Italian (we were still the descendents of Harold Godwinson, we just spoke Italian). And after another 50 years, London, Kent, and Wessex were Italian, too. Then my heir got tutored by an Abyssinian Monophysite (the former Queen mother). He became a monophysite, and since we was a brilliant diplomat, most of his vassals followed suit. It took 200 years, but England had become the land of Italian Orthodox heretics. Interestingly, the Irish and Welsh counties embraced it sooner than the Scots and Italian counties.

Game Of The Year.
 

unmerged(226921)

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Thanks for the good preview and superb random thoughts thrown in afterwards :). I happen to have a question, however.

Does the game give a claim to Eadgar the Aetheling even if Harold wins? Eadgar should always be in a position to take his throne from whomever wins, be it Harold, William or even Harald. If he doesn't have a claim, is it possible for you to suggest he should? Also, this is probably a bit much, but would it be possible to take a screenshot of him once he's 16? :D

Regards,

The Great
 

Maginor

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Ai william should usually win, so if youre playing hungary, youre changing history, not a pawn to someone elses change. Atleast the first generation should feel historical. so you can blame yourself for the new world born not day one historical, day two random. year seven being random, or even year three is ok. But day two and month four should be more or less historical expect where influenced by the actions of the player.
Conditions should be set up historically so historical consequences follow.

I disagree. History is nowhere near that deterministic. The outcome of a battle may rely on the weather, which is something you can't forecast reliably more than a week ahead. If you go back a couple of months, the weather in England may be influenced by somebody opening a door in Hungary. Some accounts say that Harold was killed by an arrow, and if that was the case, all you needed was the wind to be slightly different for that arrow not to hit him. There are thousands of other examples where tiny things could change major events.