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Doomdark

Chief Creative Officer
Paradox Staff
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Apr 3, 2000
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  • Sword of the Stars II
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As you know, the Byzantine Empire is the theme of Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome and patch 1.07, and an integral part of the Empire was of course the Orthodox faith. So, today I'll talk about a feature we planned to put in the DLC, but later decided to make a free part of patch 1.07; Autocephalous Patriarchs and the Pentarchy.

The main difference between Orthodox Christianity and Catholicism is probably the lack of a single leader (although the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is nominally the first among equals.) Instead, there are a number of practically autonomous Patriarchs, though they remain in communion with the rest of the Orthodox Church. This is called autocephaly, and we now represent this in the game by making the Court Chaplain in Orthodox kingdoms a Patriarch who is the religious head of everyone in the kingdom. He has power over excommunication and divorce over all characters in his jurisdiction, though only the Ecumenical Patriarch can grant invasions. Autocephalous Patriarchs have to be bishops (rule a temple Holding), preventing them from marrying or inheriting titles.

However, this is not all; we are also adding another concept called the Pentarchy. These are the five original heads of pre-schism Christianity; the bishops of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. If there is an Orthodox bishop in one of these Holdings, he will be considered a Pentarch, and will act like an autocephalous Patriarch over his entire traditional see (Orthodox kingdoms within such an area will not have their own Patriarchs.) Each reigning Pentarch will strengthen the authority of the entire Orthodox faith. Incidentally, this mechanic also has bearing on some key Decisions in Legacy of Rome (more on that in the next dev diary.)

LoR_04_Orthodoxy.jpg

As an added bonus, we are making the other forms of Oriental Christianity a bit more interesting. There is now a religion called Miaphysite, which includes the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Armenian Apostolic Church. In game terms, it's another version of Orthodoxy, with its head in Alexandria instead of Constantinople. It has the same mechanics with autocephalous Patriarchs and the Pentarchy as Orthodox Christianity, but is not considered a heresy by Catholics and Orthodox Christians. The Monophysite heresy is now a heresy of the Miaphysite Church. Lastly, most Orthodox heresies now also work like Orthodoxy itself, and we've added the Nestorian and Monothelite heresies.

LoR_04_Miaphysite.jpg
(Notice the African faces - they're another DLC in progress.)

The religious system with the new Orthodox features is of course fully moddable, though you cannot combine investiture and antipopes with the Pentarchy mechanic.

That's all for now. The next dev diary will be the last, and will deal with the unique decisions, events and mechanics in the Legacy of Rome DLC.
 
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How is succession controlled for created autocephalies? Normal church succession only or can the feudal sovereign interfere with appointments?

Autocephalous Patriarchs are the "Court Chaplains" of Orthodox kings, pure and simple.
 
Will religious moral authority have more gameplay impacts with 1.07/LoR? Having 100 authority at the moment is not significantly different from having very low authority.

No, it basically only affects heresies still.
 
What will happen if the Bishop of Rome is Orthodox? How will this effect Catholicism, or for that matter Orthodoxy?

The Pope will still exist elsewhere, but there is another potential effect, which I will talk about next time.
 
I see. Thank you for your response, sir. So as court chaplains are appointed by the sovereign, that implies that these patriarchs are purely appointed, yes? Is this automatic for every orthodox kingdom, or do you have to actively choose to create an autocephaly within your kingdom?

It's automatic. If you have a court chaplain outside a Pentarchy, he will be an autocephalous patriach.

Also, if I restore an orthodox patriarch to Rome, is there anyway to reflect the top spot of "honour" or is he stuck having having less honour authority (for invasions and stuff) than the patriarch in Constantinople?

He will be stuck as a lesser patriarch, which is not ideal in theory, but plausible in practice.
 
Questions:

- How does the Invasion CB work for the Orthodox? Will it allow to (re)conquer whole non-Orthodox kingdoms? What are the conditions?

It works as before.

- Does the creation of the Miaphysite/Coptic religion have to do with some improvement in the balance of the Eastern African region?

It's mostly a matter of added realism, but it does create a more proper, separate Christian sphere for marriages and diplomacy.
 
On a slightly unrelated note, have you guys addressed the issue of religious heads being converted to the wrong religion? When SoI came out, I had a couple of games where I conquered Constantinople and eventually found the Ecumenical Patriarch converted to Sunni.

Since release (and indeed v1.06b), we've fixed several different issues that could cause this. If there are still any such bugs, I am not aware of them.
 
Hmm... When you say it is fully modable, does that mean you can go about and give the Pentarchy a different name in game depending on the religion it is attached to? So if say I was for some odd reason to use the mechanic for a different religion then I could name it 'Old men in skirts', but the Orthodox version of the mechanic would still be called 'Pentarchy'?

Edit: Also the changes look brilliant.

Hmm, no, I doubt that would be possible. "Fully" might be saying too much I suppose.
 
Doomdark, next week will you give us more details on the new portrait DLC packs? Is it just Byzantine and African cultures you're working on, or other cultures we've not been shown yet? :cool:

They're not really related to Legacy of Rome, but maybe I can tell you a bit more about them.
 
So if there is an orthodox bishop in Constantinople and an iconoclast bishop in Jerusalem, would they both be in the Orthodox pentarchy or would the Jerusalemite be in a separate iconoclast pentarchy? I assume the latter, but clarification would be interesting.

Also, very excited about the DLC. Awesome work :D

They would be separate.
 
A question regarding this... when you say Kingdom, you mean all Kingdoms or only the Independent ones? And will this apply to independent Dukes as well? Or, will the independent Dukes fall within the autocephaly of the de-jure kingdom they belong to? In this case what would happen if I were a Duke in Ireland who went Orthodox?

The religious head of an Orthodox character is determined by looking at, in order: De Jure Pentarch, De Jure Kingdom, De Jure Empire, De Facto Kingdom, De Facto Empire, Ecumenical Patriarch.
 
My question relates to the heresies. It seems that the Orthodox heresies will have their own patriarchs. Will Catholic heresies have any sort of head(s) of religion? It wouldn't seem fair that one branch's heresies get them, but the other's doesn't.

My suggestion is related to the Copts: While I know its a hard topic to research, I sincerely hope at least some of the provinces of egypt start off as Coptic. Its hard to know which areas were majority Coptic (though we know Cairo was a Muslim city) at the start of the game, but they were definitely a major part of the population. And, if I remember correctly, Muslim rulers get more tax from Christian provinces, so this would help out the economy of Egypt, which is fairly realistic.

More love for the Catholic heresies is definitely needed, but it's not planned for this DLC. As for the religion of Egyptian provinces, I agree. Will look into it.
 
As I understood it, heresies aren't getting their own patriarch, rather one of the religions which was an Orthodox heresy in the game till now (Miaphysite) is being converted into a stand-alone religion of its own (with its own heresies) and that is getting the Patriarch of Alexandria (along with a Pentarchy of its own)

The Orthodox heresies (except Iconoclasts and Bogomilists) do get their own head, complete, with title.
 
Thanks for the responses Doomsdark. By the way, what is the map mode that we see in the screenshots? Something new that will come up when you open religion menu for Orthodox players?

Yep, it shows the patriarchates within the religion.