Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome - Dev Diary 3: Combat Rebalance

Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome - Dev Diary 3: Combat Rebalance

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Doomdark

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Ears up folks, it's time for another Legacy of Rome and patch 1.07 dev diary! This time, I'll reveal what we've done to rebalance combat. All these things are actually in patch 1.07, so you'll get them whether you buy the DLC or not.

To give you some background, we were never entirely happy with the combat system in the game; the outcome was too dependent on numerical advantage and there was little you could do to affect it beside throwing more troops into the fray. Part of the problem was simply the lack of proper random elements. This was fixed in patch 1.06 with more varied, decisive and longer lasting combat tactics. Another issue was that the composition of the Holding levies was largely beyond your control; all you could do was try to focus on Cavalry buildings in your own Holdings if you wanted to try having more Cavalry on the flanks in battle. We have addressed this in part with more specific unit type buildings and cultural versions of buildings. The major fix though, is the Retinue system in Legacy of Rome. Lastly, we realized that the most important tactical consideration for players, and something they can influence, is the choice of commander and the effect he has on the battle. In patch 1.06, we added a new type of trait called "Leadership Traits", and now we're adding even more of them:

  • Flat Terrain Expert
  • Rough Terrain Expert
  • Mountain Expert
  • Desert Expert
  • Holy Warrior
  • Unyielding

LoR_03_Holy_Warrior.jpg

The choice of flank leader for the right role is now an important tactical choice with a real effect on the outcome of the battle.

We've also tweaked the combat tactics and unit types a bit more, and made sure that pure archer flanks are not imbalanced, knights are slightly less overpowered, etc. Oh, and all cultures now have a cultural building, but some cultures have the same as others.

Lastly, though not exactly related, I should probably mention that the military AI has been improved a lot, to focus on what's important and avoid attrition.

Hmm, that was a bit short, but it's all I have for you today. Next time: Orthodoxy.
 
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Galaahd

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First!

EDIT:

Lastly, though not exactly related, I should probably mention that the military AI has been improved a lot, to focus on what's important and avoid attrition.
Good to hear, because yesterday the HRE's AI wasted about 100k soldiers in attrition over Mallorca while I was trying to conquer it :confused:
 

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Just what I needed right now :)
 

DominusNovus

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Not much to comment, but, yay! Glad to hear that we'll have an Orthodoxy DD next week. Just to clarify, when you say picking the right flank leader, any chance you mean the right (as opposed to left) flank? That is, after all, the more important flank...

PS, now I can go to work; I was waiting until after the DD came out.
 

apg

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i see the icon for holy warrior is the same as aggresive leader, is it a placeholder and holy warrior will get a new icon? as well as the other new leader traits?
 

Tapscott

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This one was rather short. I hope the Orthodoxy one next week is more meaty!
 

riknap

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I can finally sleep!


still, does this mean that in late-era games, compositions of a fully-upgraded baronies will still be the same?
or to rephrase the question, aside from the Retinue system and cultural buildings, would the way the building upgrades stay linear?

I mean, won't it be awesome if say at tier 3 the "Large Barracks" has a split wherein tier 4 either adds/upgrades more polemen or heavy infantry instead of just one choice. It could be done by making two buildings present in the holdings construction list (e.g. the "tier 4 polemen specialty barracks" and "tier 4 heavy infantry specialty barracks") but unconstructable until a tier 3 is present.

I mean, sure the Retinue system is a workaround by allowing greater unit variety and tactics, and branching paths for constructions could be modded in anyway and does feel a bit to RTS-ish, but it'll help create more variety that could make army meetups more unpredictable but slightly more controllable aside from that of the Retinue system.


that said, really looking forward to LoR more and more. I just hope you don't wait till Christmas or something.
Don't get the wrong idea... it's not that we're excited or anything.
 

Dracko81

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PS, now I can go to work; I was waiting until after the DD came out.
And I can put on a dvd and go to sleep :)

OT:

Another issue was that the composition of the Holding levies was largely beyond your control; all you could do was try to focus on Cavalry buildings in your own Holdings if you wanted to try having more Cavalry on the flanks in battle. We have addressed this in part with more specific unit type buildings and cultural versions of buildings.
More specific unit type buildings? Do you mean more cultural building types that would replace other current buildings or just more? Or something altogether different?
 

unmerged(362834)

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Any chance that the 1.07 patch includes improvements to the decadence mechanic?

Right now, one idle relative makes decadent a dynasty where other dozens are busy! quite unfair!

Thanks for the news anyway!
 

unmerged(75409)

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[...]
Lastly, we realized that the most important tactical consideration for players, and something they can influence, is the choice of commander and the effect he has on the battle. In patch 1.06, we added a new type of trait called "Leadership Traits", and now we're adding even more of them:

  • Flat Terrain Expert
  • Rough Terrain Expert
  • Mountain Expert
  • Desert Expert
  • Holy Warrior
  • Unyielding

The choice of flank leader for the right role is now an important tactical choice with a real effect on the outcome of the battle.

[...]
Will there also be leaders who can avoid suffering "Pursuit" when retreating from a battle? As in, they retreat, but the tactical icon is not a tattered white flag but instead a shieldwall or something and it says "Retreat in good order"?

I think it's a major problem in the game that, at present, whenever you lose a battle you lose BIG TIME. Because regardless of whether your flank leader is El Cid or a bumbling buffoon, when he retreats, the enemy pounds him mercilessly.

It would be much cooler if you sometimes, with the right leaders, could have a tactic like "Retreat in good order", which would be triggered AFTER the other two flanks retreat, but BEFORE your flank's morale collapses entirely.

Right now when the enemy comes at you with 20,000 men and you only have 10,000, the only way to avoid getting half your army killed is to not give battle at all. But if you had the right commander (maybe with a trait "cautious" or "stalwart"?) then it would give the game more depth, because you COULD risk giving the enemy battle in order to make him bleed.

It would make sense, for example if you must prevent the enemy from uniting his forces - if you knew you had cautious / stalwart leaders you could choose to delay him by giving battle even when you know it's unlikely that you will win.

Or if you were playing cat and mouse with his big stack, while trying to hit his smaller stacks... you could more easily risk that with such commanders because you know, if the big stack catches you, there's still a chance that you get out intact.

Or when your liege has called your troops, and is leading them into a battle you know he cannot win - your dude might turn out to be the hero who saves his flank from annihilation. Maybe even a nice battle event could be triggered where is says "your king is eternally grateful to you for saving his ass during the retreat"...

Of course if the enemy has such a commander it could really give you a hard time, you might have to chase him around and fight him quite a lot before you manage to pin him down and get a successful "pursuit" on his flank. But that would be, well, life! :)
 

Doomdark

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i see the icon for holy warrior is the same as aggresive leader, is it a placeholder and holy warrior will get a new icon? as well as the other new leader traits?
It's a placeholder, yes.
 

KonradRichtmark

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How, exactly, were knights overpowered previously? They were so rare (except for military order knights) that I'd think it wouldn't matter either way.
 

Kolonel

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Sweet! :)
Good to hear battles will no longer rely so much on numerical advantage.
 

Doomdark

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How, exactly, were knights overpowered previously? They were so rare (except for military order knights) that I'd think it wouldn't matter either way.
They are not that rare anymore, with heavy cavalry retinues.
 

ciek

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Will there also be leaders who can avoid suffering "Pursuit" when retreating from a battle? As in, they retreat, but the tactical icon is not a tattered white flag but instead a shieldwall or something and it says "Retreat in good order"?

snip

Or when your liege has called your troops, and is leading them into a battle you know he cannot win - your dude might turn out to be the hero who saves his flank from annihilation. Maybe even a nice battle event could be triggered where is says "your king is eternally grateful to you for saving his ass during the retreat"...

Of course if the enemy has such a commander it could really give you a hard time, you might have to chase him around and fight him quite a lot before you manage to pin him down and get a successful "pursuit" on his flank. But that would be, well, life! :)
Almost like guerrilla style fighting? Yes, this is sorely missing from the game currently, having leaders that could do this, I could imagine would also make attacking people in rougher terrains that much more costly.

If this can't be figured out in the base game, I would wonder if retreat mechanics could be modded in anyway?
 

grumphie

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yeah. why nerf knights if we lacked them for most of the game anyway? also, any chance we can get those leader traits also with other educations(say learning) by expierience or tutoring by someone who has it?