Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome - Dev Diary 2: Liege Levies and Retinues

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Doomdark

Design Director
Super Moderator
1 Badges
Apr 3, 2000
5.434
11.318
  • Paradox Order
Well, what do you know? It's Legacy of Rome dev diary day again! Today's topics are Liege Levies and Retinues.

In patch v1.07, you raise fewer, larger levies from your direct vassals (we call these "Liege Levies" for lack of a better term.) These levies are now handled separately from actual Holding levies; you only get regular holding levies from your own Demesne. The opinions of vassals of vassals are thus now mostly irrelevant; you only need to worry about the opinions of your direct vassals. Another benefit is that you don't get tiny little armies all over the place when you mobilize your realm. Liege levies also fix a fundamental balancing flaw in that you can no longer just keep raising little levies from all vassals as a war drags on (due to the portion of holding levies that was reserved for the liege.) The new Liege Levies do not reinforce at home while raised.

LoR_02_Liege_Levies.jpg

That's it for Liege Levies. Now, the concept of Retinues should be familiar to those of you who have played Sengoku. Basically, Retinues are your household guard; your elite core of professional soldiers. At the start of the game, most rulers are not able to employ Retinues, but it becomes possible as their total manpower (based on all the levies in their realm) and average Military Organization (a new technology) level increase. Over time, the Retinues turn into proper standing armies. The downside is that, as your Retinue capacity increases, your normal levies decrease in size. However, even at max tech, levies will still account for the majority of your armies.

There are many types of Retinues available for hire - including several unique cultural variants - though they always come in 500-man regiments with a commander of your own culture. Retinues reinforce in the field, like mercenaries, and when you first hire them, they start with 1 man. Unlike armies in other games, for example Europa Universalis, Retinues only cost maintenance while they reinforce. You are of course allowed to declare war even if you have Retinues (which are always standing on the map.)

LoR_02_Cataphract_Retinue.jpg

So, why did we choose to add the Retinue system to the DLC? Why should you spend $6 on Legacy of Rome rather than a Latte and a slice of cake? There are many reasons, including these:

  • Retinues make arranging your flanks and balancing your armies far more tactical
  • Having a dependable standing army ready is strategically preferable
  • They fit nicely into the overall military system in patch v1.07 with Liege Levies, etc
  • History saw levy based militaries transform gradually into more professional forces

LoR_02_New_Retinue.jpg

I should mention again that the whole Retinue mechanic requires that you own the DLC; if you don't, the new Retinue tab will be grayed out in the military view and the AI will not use Retinues either. However, if the host in a multiplayer game owns the DLC, all players will be able to use Retinues.

I think that will do it for today. Next week, I plan to talk about the new Leader traits and cultural buildings. Until then!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeltaCortis

The Underking
88 Badges
Feb 17, 2012
496
112
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • PDXCON 2017 Standard Ticket holder
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
Awesome can't wait I will definitely buy the DLC :D
 

stormblind

Second Lieutenant
87 Badges
Feb 15, 2012
124
126
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Impire
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
This is something I've honestly always wanted. TBH it's even something I sometimes mod my game to have. Large nations with over X amount of troops getting a small 500-1000 troop mercenary force that is incredibly cheap to maintain and permanently available.

Looking forward to retinue's a VERY great deal.
 

Stuckenschmidt

Deus Vult
50 Badges
Jun 25, 2004
3.723
1.703
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • BATTLETECH
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome Gold
Will the changes from 1.07 and Legacy of Rome apply to saved games started with 1.06?
 

Davisx3m

-{Kaiserreich Team]-
90 Badges
Dec 16, 2006
6.931
2.172
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
Great!
 

Loderingo

First Lieutenant
22 Badges
Mar 18, 2012
220
253
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Sounds interesting and looking forward to it.

So I guess the liege levies now not replenishing means that all wars will tend to be shorter and you'll get less of the AI-AI wars that drag on for 20 years?
 

Ciccillo Rre

Alluccate: "Viva 'o Rre!!!"
81 Badges
Oct 16, 2011
2.356
445
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • PDXCon 2019 "Baron"
I will celebrate the Legacy of Rome DLC with a Breton/neo-Arthurian AAR with the Round Table knights as my retinue.

Is it possible to rename armies at the moment? I am not sure. If not, it should be DEFINITELY allowed, at least for retinues.
 

Doomdark

Design Director
Super Moderator
1 Badges
Apr 3, 2000
5.434
11.318
  • Paradox Order
Will the changes from 1.07 and Legacy of Rome apply to saved games started with 1.06?

Yes, but be aware that some old plots and similar will cease to exist when you load an old save in v1.07.
 

Doomdark

Design Director
Super Moderator
1 Badges
Apr 3, 2000
5.434
11.318
  • Paradox Order
Sounds interesting and looking forward to it.

So I guess the liege levies now not replenishing means that all wars will tend to be shorter and you'll get less of the AI-AI wars that drag on for 20 years?

In general, yes.
 

Dartheal

Captain
63 Badges
Apr 14, 2012
428
6
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities in Motion
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
I don't suppose the Retinue system will have a "Hunt for Rebels" button, right? :p

Also, does everyone get a Retinue or will it just be the overall ruler of a nation?

Edit: And I guess that the Heavy Cavalry sprite at the last picture is apart of the new Portrait pack or is it part of the Rome DLC?
 

Makesin

First Lieutenant
105 Badges
Aug 2, 2010
230
79
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
What happens with the retinue army if it's disbanded or obliterated in battle? Will it simply regrow again or is it lost forever unless bought again?
 

Doomdark

Design Director
Super Moderator
1 Badges
Apr 3, 2000
5.434
11.318
  • Paradox Order
I don't suppose the Retinue system will have a "Hunt for Rebels" button, right? :p

Also, does everyone get a Retinue or will it just be the overall ruler of a nation?

Everyone who has enough total manpower under them.
 

riknap

Inactive Custodian of the Light
66 Badges
Feb 27, 2011
6.574
196
steamcommunity.com
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
"Banner Hosts" sounds like a more medieval-y alternative to "Liege Levies", minus the alliteration (though I know it's a dev diary term only anyway :laugh:)
 

Jia Xu

Strategist
58 Badges
Feb 27, 2010
3.467
2.547
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
Any chance of us modders getting some extra love in 1.07? I'd like to be able to use specific dynasties in my triggers for events, please. Thanks. I'd also really love it if we could change de jure borders with events or decisions too.
 

Doomdark

Design Director
Super Moderator
1 Badges
Apr 3, 2000
5.434
11.318
  • Paradox Order
What happens with the retinue army if it's disbanded or obliterated in battle? Will it simply regrow again or is it lost forever unless bought again?

If it's in an army with surviving troops, it will survive, but if the whole army is slaughtered, it's gone.
 

knuckey

AGOT Mod
40 Badges
Oct 10, 2010
1.676
746
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Rome Gold
I'd also really love it if we could change de jure borders with events or decisions too.

You already can, use 'de_jure_liege = <title>' in any title scope
 

Hellcar

Corporal
37 Badges
Jul 22, 2012
28
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • BATTLETECH
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Prison Architect
  • Semper Fi
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Rome Gold
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Dungeonland
I'm curious as to what will happen if I load a previous version save game that was saved during a major war with "tiny little armies all over the place"?