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DaVincix

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Please tell me that the non-appearance of the Messalian (and other?) holy order(s) has been fixed for this patch. From my understanding, the fix is trivial.

[2.4.4 FUYZ] Order of Saint Addai not forming

Messalian Holy Orders?

Yes, the according file has several such invalid code, which is indeed this: religion = christian

I have fixed them quickly with Notepad++, a matter of a few minutes, just edit in folder events the file soa_holy_order_events.txt (make a backup of this txt) as following, replace:


religion = christian

with

religion_group = christian


Save and good.
 
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Dracko81

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Huh? Which of the issues don't "work that way"?

The Mongols don't need any balls, because the large Nomadic nations subjugate the Abbasids and/or Byzantines 30 years after the game start in almost all playthroughs.

Face it, Horse Lords and Nomadic government type are broken. There is no decision-making beyond which realm you absolutely want to demolish. I fear they will be even more broken when Shattered Retreat is implemented.

Pillaging for one isn't an issue. The #1 reason this is? Because the AI never does it, except to tribal holdings.

There isn't anything broken with nomads, only that as a player you can easily conquer the world. But that is sort of the point. Are they a little too powerful? Yes and but the only thing that needs affecting is the populations and manpower figures.

You can not balance a government type on the aggressiveness of human players. I can conquer the world as Welsh Catholic, so we should nerf the Welsh Catholics right?
 
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Zaratras

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How is it ahistoric to punish expansion and war? You can count on no hands how many people in the CK2 time period successfully conquered Europe. It should be harder for players to do it. You know what I felt the first time I successfully painted every province in the game my color? Satisfaction. Not pride. Just satisfaction. I want to reconquer the Pride I felt when I first united Ireland. When I first formed the Empire of Britannia. When I first won Jerusalem as a goody prize for a Crusade. When I first defended Jerusalem from a Jihad....

I want to face a challenge again, and feel pride at overcoming it.

It's ahistoric due to the fact that coalitions were not prevalent at all in the time period, war was commonplace. Historically, some far Muslim ruler wont join a coalition to help some far Catholic ruler. With the coalition mechanic, we'll see completely contradictory coalitions of members in far away realms, different religions and ideologies. This is the main immersion killer I'm referring to, Its going to devolve into a gamey tactic and thats the issue. Secondly, it shouldnt be harder for players to go to war, I think the difficulty in war is already fair. It should be harder for users to manage their realm. Keeping vassals happy, keeping peasants happy, keeping claimants happy, keeping family happy, keeping the religion at a respectable level (when applicable) should be the way in which difficulty ramps up in managing large realms. Revolt risk should be greater in larger realms, heresies should be more prevalent, vassals should be harder to keep content (which is happening in conclave), claimants are always a danger as we know, and should have a few more special events to trigger claims in unique ways. Realm and vassal management is the way in which difficulty should ramp up, restricting war is the wrong approach.
 
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TheDungen

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Again the grand coalitions at the end of the ck2 era would disagree with you, the one that broke the golden horde, and the one that failed to break the ottoman beachhead on the european continent. The 1444 start of eu4 is very much the result of coalitions.
 
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TheDungen

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Can you show me a source that shows that there was 30+ wars happening all at once every year throughout the time period please.
What is a war? Conflict was certainly commonplace.
 

Lennart Stek

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Infamy system in medieval age? How will this work? Are Italy suddently going to start care in Scandinavian wars against petty kingdom of Iceland?
 
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Again the grand coalitions at the end of the ck2 era would disagree with you...

Emphasis added

The 1444 start of eu4 is very much the result of coalitions.

A full-throated defense of the mechanic for EU4, if I've ever heard one.

My issue is that empires should rise and fall quickly, especially in Asia. The prospect of nonsensical alliances that are now only possible with coalitions because the characters in question cannot intermarry is infuriating. It's the wrong direction to go in.

Especially egregious is being punished for your vassals' actions.
 
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TheDungen

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Emphasis added



A full-throated defense of the mechanic for EU4, if I've ever heard one.

My issue is that empires should rise and fall quickly, especially in Asia. The prospect of nonsensical alliances that are now only possible with coalitions because the characters in question cannot intermarry is infuriating. It's the wrong direction to go in.

Especially egregious is being punished for your vassals' actions.
No it happened before the eu4 era. Which considering that the eras overlap places it firmly in the ck2 era.
 
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heliostellar

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No it happened before the eu4 era. Which considering that the eras overlap places it firmly in the ck2 era.

This is an era of men over laws. The concept is anachronistic and has almost no real life precedent throughout most of the game's timeframe.
 
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zyphial

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My issue is that empires should rise and fall quickly, especially in Asia. The prospect of nonsensical alliances that are now only possible with coalitions because the characters in question cannot intermarry is infuriating. It's the wrong direction to go in.
I'm largely okay with the mechanic... but the religious marriage restriction is beyond ludicrous and has always been a major developer fault in reasoning.

How did the Christians react to Muslim hegemony in the middle east? Why, by seeking a coalition with the mongols... to be sealed by MARRIAGE.
 
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I'm largely okay with the mechanic... but the religious marriage restriction is beyond ludicrous and has always been a major developer fault in reasoning.

How did the Christians react to Muslim hegemony in the middle east? Why, by seeking a coalition with the mongols... to be sealed by MARRIAGE.

That was one instance of a cross-religious group alliance (it was not a broad coalition) that happened near the end of the 13th century. How many empires swept across Eurasia up until that point in history? How does this one, rather exceptional example justify re-working game mechanics back to 769?

If coalitions were based on anything real, then Islam should never have become what it became under the Umayyads because there should have been a coalition of Romans, Slavs, Zoroastrians (perhaps even sea creatures and Aztecs?), etc to stop it from ever reaching as far as Hispania and Persia.
 
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zyphial

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That was one instance of a cross-religious group alliance (it was not a broad coalition) that happened near the end of the 13th century. How many empires swept across Eurasia up until that point in history? How does this one, rather exceptional example justify re-working game mechanics back to 769?
I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying. I said marriages happened cross religiously and was agreeing with you when you said that instead of a new mechanic they could have simply reversed this old change.

If coalitions were based on anything real, then Islam should never have become what it became under the Umayyads because there should have been a coalition of Romans, Slavs, Zoroastrians (perhaps even sea creatures and Aztecs?), etc to stop it from ever reaching as far as Hispania and Persia.
That's completely untrue... Are you sure you understand how CK2 coalitions are to work? Nevermind diplomatic distance, coalitions affect nearby states not the entire planet (and this is true in EU4 as well). Though quite fast in their expansion, the Umayyads did not dash from Mecca to Madrid in a year. People relatively far from their path of conquest wouldn't have had any reason to believe that in a few decades they'd be facing the same conquerors... and the devs have made it clear that Infamy is localized.

My understanding is that your neighbors will work together against you (perfectly historical/realpolitik), not badboy wars ala EU3. Nothing the devs have said support the idea that distant realms will join together. Quite the opposite, actually.
 
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My understanding is that your neighbors will work together against you (perfectly historical/realpolitik), not badboy wars ala EU3. Nothing the devs have said support the idea that distant realms will join together. Quite the opposite, actually.

Potentially all countries bordering you could join the coalition. See Groogy's image in the DD: Dev Diary 11: Stopping The Snowball

Why Egypt cares about what happens to the Zoros in central Asia is beyond me...

In fact, the only country that is not in the coalition are the Byzzies, but that's presumably because they have a truce per the character view.

I can't wait until we see the Pope riding off to Constantinople to slay the emperor for being too zealous in the Middle East. Or even, France attacking the HRE for persecuting the Germanics up in Scandinavia.
 
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