Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 11 - War

Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 11 - War

  • We will be taking the forums down for scheduled maintenance on 12 August 2020 at approximately 3PM CDT (8PM UTC / 10PM CEST), this downtime is currently estimated to last around 1 hour.
  • Pre order now!

    Paradox Development Studio brings you the sequel to one of the most popular strategy games ever made! Crusader Kings III is soon upon us and you can pre order it today!


    Releasing September 1st 2020

Tegus

Deluxe programmer
3 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
626
1
  • Divine Wind
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
War, what is it good for?

In Crusader Kings II, hopefully you'll gain some titles and in the best of worlds, imprison or behead your enemy. In order to declare a war you'll first need a valid Casus Belli against your enemy(a CB held by a vassal or courtier will of course do as well). You cannot attack the vassals of someone, so if you want one of their titles you have to attack their liege. Also, unlike Europa Universalis III and Victoria II, once a war has started it cannot be extended by adding further wargoals or CBs.

Instead, each CB has three options scripted: Demand Defeat, White Peace and Reversed Demands. As an example, let's look at the Claim CB. This CB lets you attack people holding titles you have claims on. If the war is going well, you can demand that your enemy give his title to you and as a bonus you'll gain a small amount of prestige. If you fail to achieve your goal, you could sue for a white peace instead. You'd want to avoid this though, since signing a white peace gives you a prestige hit(you didn't achieve your goals, after all). White peace is still preferable to the reversed demand however, since if your enemy enforces this, you will both lose the claim and get a huge prestige hit.

CrusaderKingsII_War_2.png

While most wars will end in a peace treaty, this is not the only way they can end. Some CBs have effects that trigger when the leader of an alliance dies. An example of this is the Invasion CB, which is currently used by William against Harold. When the leader of the attacking alliance dies, the war immediately ends. Be careful when going to war with your old king...

Another part of wars is the warscore. Like our other games, you'll gain warscore by occupying enemy holdings(the capital is worth more, vassal holdings are worth less) and winning battles(in CK2, they are worth a lot of warscore). We've also added a warscore effect if the contested title is left with no controller change for some time. After three years(currently), warscore is slowly added to the person controlling the area. This means that it's now possible to win a war as a) a defender in a war by just defending your title or b) attacking someone, sieging down the title you want and then just stand still and defend those provinces. By the way, if you manage to capture and imprison the enemy leader(for example, in a battle), this automatically counts as 100% warscore. We've also removed all limits to warscore, so whoever reaches >=100% first by any combination of occupation, battles, controlling the correct territory and imprisonment automatically wins the war.

CrusaderKingsII_War_1.png

Last but not least we have tagged some CBs to be "hostile against others", for example the Invasion CB. The effect of this is that two parties contesting the same title will fight each other even if they are not at war. It might be better as William to wait a bit until Harald and Harold both have worn down their armies...

'Till next time!
Fredrik Zetterman
Programmer, Paradox Interactive
 
Last edited by a moderator:

unmerged(149861)

Colonel
4 Badges
Aug 8, 2009
1.167
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Pillars of Eternity
first!

And how will peace deals with the Mongols work under this new system, or do we get a DD just for that?
 
Last edited:

RedRooster81

Modding Paladin
11 Badges
Feb 16, 2010
5.673
29
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
Good to hear about CBs. So there is the claim CB, the invasion CB (is that when a disloyal vassal invites in an outsider?), and we have also seen the religious conversion CB on a screenshot for the Byzantine Empire going to war with the Duke of Rashka (IIRC). So what else will there be? Will there be a sort of honor war, especially for fighting within the same kingdom, say the Count of Artois dishonors the Count of Hainaut? Finally, will we be able to move our armies anywhere or within some limits?
 

Johan

Studio Manager Paradox Tinto
Administrator
Super Moderator
Moderator
16 Badges
Dec 14, 1999
18.055
27.344
  • Diplomacy
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Lead and Gold
  • Magicka
  • Starvoid
I found out the HARD way that you may get imprisoned if you try to backstab your liege and declare war and then sign a peace to return to the fold..
 

Keinwyn

General
78 Badges
Aug 2, 2009
2.270
298
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
We can't add multiple war goals? So if I want county X and county Y (and have a claim on both and both are in the same realm) I have to wage two separate wars?

I found out the HARD way that you may get imprisoned if you try to backstab your liege and declare war and then sign a peace to return to the fold..
That's awesome!
 

Tegus

Deluxe programmer
3 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
626
1
  • Divine Wind
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
What's the difference between an Invasion CB and a Claim title X CB?
Invasion always targets the top-tier title of an independent realm. When you demand peace using an Invasion CB, you will get all holdings which you currently occupy(along with the top-tier title). In the case of William, he could conquer only the south of England and replace the barons there with Normans, while the northern part would still be his vassals, but Saxon.

Invasion CBs are currently only granted by the Pope however.
 

Ezzezze

Captain
90 Badges
Sep 4, 2001
389
42
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Invasion always targets the top-tier title of an independent realm. When you demand peace using an Invasion CB, you will get all holdings which you currently occupy(along with the top-tier title). In the case of William, he could conquer only the south of England and replace the barons there with Normans, while the northern part would still be his vassals, but Saxon.

Invasion CBs are currently only granted by the Pope however.
This begs a Papal interaction DD next time. Or a how to create CBs.

Also, regarding CBs. Please tell us we can work towards them and aren't forced to wait, for a once in a lifetime chance, to get such a CB land in our lap :(
 

Tegus

Deluxe programmer
3 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
626
1
  • Divine Wind
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
We can't add multiple war goals? So if I want county X and county Y (and have a claim on both and both are in the same realm) I have to wage two separate wars?
It will depend on the type of CB you use. Currently a claim CB is for one claim only, and Invasion is for an entire country. We haven't yet decided how we'll handle multiple claims in wars.
 

Ulyaoth

First Lieutenant
11 Badges
Nov 17, 2006
207
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • 500k Club
Kinda wary about some of these terms, so you can only get what you aim for in the war's beginning?

Also, from the first screen, I haven't heard of this before but can you now play as a pagan? Or is that character Erik the Heathen a convert?
 

Tegus

Deluxe programmer
3 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
626
1
  • Divine Wind
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Kinda wary about some of these terms, so you can only get what you aim for in the war's beginning?

Also, from the first screen, I haven't heard of this before but can you now play as a pagan? Or is that character Erik the Heathen a convert?
With the Invasion CB, you get what you have occupied when the peace is signed.

As for pagans, dev hax :)
 
Last edited:

Tegus

Deluxe programmer
3 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
626
1
  • Divine Wind
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
This begs a Papal interaction DD next time. Or a how to create CBs.

Also, regarding CBs. Please tell us we can work towards them and aren't forced to wait, for a once in a lifetime chance, to get such a CB land in our lap :(
No waiting required. Invasion CBs are granted by the Pope, Claim CBs are granted if you have claims.

There are also multiple "permanent" CBs which are given to you if their conditions are met. For example, you get an Independence CB on your liege if he is independent, you get a Religious CB on people of other religious groups, you get an Excommunication CB if you share the same religious head and your target is excommunicated and so on.
 

LaIsHeR

Sergeant
56 Badges
Sep 15, 2010
72
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Will some kind of guarantee be in the game? If i want to keep some Duke independent (if its my close relative I could secure my succession of the land for example) like I could do it in EU3? I dont see any kind of option like that in the menu

Edit: and will we get next DD at start of September?
 

RedRooster81

Modding Paladin
11 Badges
Feb 16, 2010
5.673
29
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
I see possibilities here for promoting limited warfare, if only one title can be claimed at a time, and you can only declare war on independent rulers, not vassals. I'm looking forward to how invasion CBs will work out, and if excommunication will be a free invasion CB for anyone of your faith.

So anything on religious enemies, i.e., can you declare war on your pagan neighbors any time you want and keep what you conquer?
 

Te. Kenzo

Field Marshal
95 Badges
Aug 3, 2009
3.648
504
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Lead and Gold
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities in Motion
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2 A House Divided Beta
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2
Simply Awesome, i have very curious about Pope role.
I have two question:

1. So if i have conquered all the enemy, but in the last battle my leader being cought, they automatically won against me, or i have the possibility to negotiate in more profitable situation? The king is cought but his the country is healty and victorius, while the one of my enemy is occupied and in ashes.

2. Can i have more information about that?

Last but not least we have tagged some CBs to be "hostile against others", for example the Invasion CB. The effect of this is that two parties contesting the same title will fight each other even if they are not at war. It might be better as William to wait a bit until Harald and Harold both have worn down their armies...
 

Romtos

Field Marshal
76 Badges
Nov 1, 2008
2.608
0
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Iron Cross
  • Magicka
  • Cities in Motion
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
(a CB held by a vassal or courtier will of course do as well)
Nice! So this can also form a drive to have a certain fellow in your court just for the sake of his CB's/claims?
 

Tegus

Deluxe programmer
3 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
626
1
  • Divine Wind
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
I see possibilities here for promoting limited warfare, if only one title can be claimed at a time, and you can only declare war on independent rulers, not vassals. I'm looking forward to how invasion CBs will work out, and if excommunication will be a free invasion CB for anyone of your faith.

So anything on religious enemies, i.e., can you declare war on your pagan neighbors any time you want and keep what you conquer?
At the time being, yes, but it's a bit too powerful at the moment so we will need to test some alternatives to balance it a bit.
 

Tegus

Deluxe programmer
3 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
626
1
  • Divine Wind
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Nice! So this can also form a drive to have a certain fellow in your court just for the sake of his CB's/claims?
Certainly. Note however, if you use the claim of someone else, they will get the title, not you. I think for most of those CBs you become their liege though(if the conquered title doesn't outrank your own)
 

Ivashanko

Field Marshal
48 Badges
Dec 6, 2010
2.517
477
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Prison Architect
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • For the Motherland
  • King Arthur II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
Simply Awesome, i have very curious about Pope role.
I have two question:

1. So if i have conquered all the enemy, but in the last battle my leader being cought, they automatically won against me, or i have the possibility to negotiate in more profitable situation? The king is cought but his the country is healty and victorius, while the one of my enemy is occupied and in ashes.

2. Can i have more information about that?
Number 1 is an extremely good question. If a King conquered another area, and then was killed by a falling brick on his way to the pub, the enemy would still lose the war. The King's son or brother or whoever would claim the throne instead.

As for number 2, I think that, for example, two people are trying to claim the same throne, they are technically at war with each other until one side or the other claims the throne. That's because the object of both their wars is the same- and, thus, they have to compete against each other to claim it.