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Hello everyone!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, Scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and I bid you all welcome to this week's dev diary for Crusader kings II: Charlemagne.

Autumn is coming in Sweden but the birds are still singing, though sometimes out of tune.

Today we'll be discussing some new changes that affect how you rule your realm. Some of these things are obviously patch content, while some are locked to having the Charlemagne expansion.

The first thing we've done is to add a vassal limit. This is exactly what it sounds like - a limit to how many vassals a ruler can have without receiving penalties. Every vassal of count tier or above will count against this limit. The vassal limit will be higher for rulers of higher tiers, and for rulers with higher diplomacy skill. Another factor that increases the limit is your dynasty's prestige. You can also affect your vassal limit by changing your Centralization Law (this touches on an important new law mechanic - more on this later in this dev diary).

So what are the penalties of going over your vassal limit? Well, you will immediately get a penalty to the taxes and levies for all your vassals. This penalty increases exponentially, and if you go far enough over the limit you will get no vassal taxes or levies at all.

The second danger of being over the limit is that when your ruler dies, there is a chance of any vassal simply becoming independent instead of swearing fealty to your heir. The risk of this happening increases the higher over the limit you are. Vassals who are geographically more distant from your capital are the ones who are most likely to declare independence.

cm_dd_3_laws_2.png

We've also made a very important change to how laws depend on technology. Many laws are now unlocked by advancing your Legalism technology. Higher levels in this tech are needed to unlock higher levels of Centralization, Crown Authority, Levy and Taxation laws and Viceroy laws (again, just keep reading to find out more about this). This means that you will see a big difference in the tools available to organize your realm early game vs late game.

With these changes, Legalism no longer directly increases your demesne size limit, this modifier has been removed. Also, the short reign penalty modifier has been moved to the Majesty tech.

So, what does the Centralization Law do now? Well, firstly, it's a demesne law and so applies to your entire realm. Secondly, it has five tiers, going from fully decentralized to fully centralized. Lower centralization grants you a bonus to Vassal Limit, while high Centralization grants a bonus to Demesne Size Limit and a penalty to Vassal Limit. This presents the player with an interesting choice - do you want to focus on a larger, less centralized realm or on a stronger personal demesne but having a harder time of organizing your many vassals?

How legalism unlocks laws will be moddable to a large extent.

Now, to viceroys... With the Charlemagne DLC, it will be possible for a non-tribal emperor tier character to appoint viceroys to rule any kingdom or duchy titles that the emperor himself holds. This is effectively a lifetime governorship, where the viceroy becomes a vassal of the empire. Any landed vassal of count tier or above can be granted a viceroyalty. However, the viceroy does not own the title, but rather rules in his liege's name. When he dies, the title goes back to the liege. For all other purposes, the viceroy functions as a normal vassal. One character can hold several viceroyalties.

cm_dd3_viceroy.png

The ability to appoint viceroys is unlocked by the Legalism tech, and kingdom viceroyalties are unlocked much earlier than duchy viceroyalties.

Viceroys will gain an opinion bonus to the liege who grants the title, so should usually be quite loyal. However, should a viceroy mount a successful rebellion or otherwise become independent he will gain the granted kingdom or duchy as a permanent title.

We have also made some changes to regencies. The essence of it is that a character's regent is now more of a conscious actor, and will not automatically act in the liege's interest. A regent who dislikes you will be somewhat likely to make things difficult for you, and certain types of personality traits will also be likely to cause problems. Diplomatic actions may be blocked if the regent does not approve, for example. A friendly regent is your best bet for getting things done your way, but there are also other considerations. Any regent is likely to prefer seeing you married to someone of their own religion and culture, for example.

cm_dd3_regent.png

Since choosing your regent has now become much more important, you will be able to name a regent beforehand, via "Award Honorary Title" in a character's diplomacy interface. Your Designated Regent is officially recognized as the one chosen to take the reins if a regency is required.

In addition to the things mentioned, there are a number of smaller changes intended to make ruling your realm more interesting, and some intended to just make it easier. One example of this is the possibility for a councilmember to help you assign recently acquired titles for you if you have a lot of them.

In the final dev diary next week we will be talking about the new tribal mechanics. See you then!
 
I like the idea of viceroys, though I have some concern about balance there.

I like the centralization changes and the regent changes.

I still have deep concerns about the removal of diplo-assassination, especially because there has been no response to the reasonable concerns expressed by myself and others in the last DD. It is used by many of us to avoid dealing with parts of the game which are simply not fun (e.g. adventurers and people who you cannot diplomatically stop from giving your dynasty decadence). Removing it will make the game less fun unless these other aspects of the game are also dealt with.
 
possibility for a councilmember to help you assign recently acquired titles for you if you have a lot of them.

What's the AI logic for this? Are the titles handed out based on how much the councilmember likes a character, stats, gavalkind, de jure, or random?
 
That was well written and explained, thanks.
Good DD.


Will we have a Q&A thread after the devdiaries ?
Will there be a proper manual ?
Will the tutorial update get mentioned ?

There are still questions looming on older diaries and dev diaries are usually the only source for infos, so...

Why are you guys using an honorary title for the designated regent? You should have put a little button in the top left corner of the character portrait for it like you did for chosen heirs in RoI......

Hmm..i find the character window is already too cluttered (aka too many buttons on small space).
The best solution would be in my opinion to enlarge the character window. I woudln't mind it to be bigger. Not necessarily as big as in CK1 though, but a wee bit bigger wouldn't hurt.
 
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Also I'm confused about the vice royalties. How many can you have? Does the land you give to a viceroy still count as your demesne?

As far as I understand, for those purposes, they're pretty much just standard vassals; you have as many as your limit allows, any land they get from you doesn't count towards your desmense...

If you're over your vassal limit when you die, can your viceroys also declare independence?
 
Viceroys sound awesome, but packing all crown law tech into legalism seems like bad design. People are just going to rush it by ignoring everything else, no matter the % ahead penalty. Basically it's going to be the same thing as Military Organization, and probably even more important.

Legalism already is this...
 
Wait, wut? it said in an earlier news post that "Dev diaries for Charlemange will be posted every week now up until release." does this mean we will see the release within the next two weeks?:eek:hmy:

I'm actually worried about that. The Devs have repeatedly indicated to us that the game's not quite stable yet, and they have had several problems with streaming a reliable build. If the game's just a couple of weeks away... I'm nervous for how stable it will be.
 
The vasall limit makes sense. Noone can manage to much vasalls without problems...

You don't "manage" vassals, that is the point of vassals and you can rule a large number of small vassals much easier then a small umber of very powerful ones, EVERY freakin' Kaiser of the HRE can attest to that. The small count or monasteries never made much of a problem, it where the powerful electors, that made trouble all the time.
 
Viceroys sound amazing and a long-awaited addition, but like many others I have to ask: what is the catch? Is there a limit to how many you can have and such? While the Empires are supposed to be less feudal, this poses the question of them becoming downright overpowered.

And I love the BWB. Never knew that white would fit 'em so well!
 
I'm actually worried about that. The Devs have repeatedly indicated to us that the game's not quite stable yet, and they have had several problems with streaming a reliable build. If the game's just a couple of weeks away... I'm nervous for how stable it will be.
If we are going to judge based on Groogy's post in MP stream thread, the game seems to be stable enough now to be played by 20 to 30-ish player...
 
Legalism already is this...

Legalism is already superior to everything else in it's tree, but sometimes I don't get a realm size upgrade next level, or I pick up a bit of the +2 opinion, to support a lower diplomacy char/ improve taxes. Now I'll shoot straight for primo/viceroys.
 
I like the idea of viceroys, though I have some concern about balance there.

I have to agree, even though I'm incredibly excited for the opportunity. Just a few quick 'off the top of my head' ideas on balancing them:
- A viceroy's heir(s) should get a claim (maybe just weak) on the viceroyal title their parent had upon the viceroy's death, and an opinion penalty against their sovereign if the viceroyalty is given to someone else.
- A viceroy should be able to plot to make their title hereditary, and that should be a high priority for any viceroy.
- Possible opinion penalty for sovereigns that are not the ones that appointed the viceroy in the first place.

Also, anyone else think that appointing your oldest suitable vassals as viceroys would be an automatic strategy, to minimize the amount of time your heir will have to deal with left-over viceroys that don't have an opinion bonus towards him?

Oh, are viceorys eligible for election in elective realms, presuming they'd otherwise be eligible?

Another question: What happens if a Grand Mayor is appointed as Viceroy, bumping him up to a Doge or Serene Doge, thus, normally, creating a merchant republic? Is there a merchant republic there for the lifetime of that Viceroy, that dissolves upon the title reverting to the feudal sovereign? What about if you have several duke-tier merchant republics and make one of them a viceroy, does that override the other MRs under the viceroy, or do they remain intact? (I'm guessing that the viceroyal title will not count towards making a merchant republic)
 
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If we are going to judge based on Groogy's post in MP stream thread, the game seems to be stable enough now to be played by 20 to 30-ish player...

I feel bad for Groogy, all these changes, and the poor guy has to keep the convertor updated.
 
I'm actually worried about that. The Devs have repeatedly indicated to us that the game's not quite stable yet, and they have had several problems with streaming a reliable build. If the game's just a couple of weeks away... I'm nervous for how stable it will be.

I mean to be fair thats a multiplayer stream, multiplayer isn't really stable right now on the current CK2 build either, so I'm not sure if it tells us anything about the more important single player game

Important question about being over vassal limit and vassals declaring themselves independent when you die, does this check based on the vassal limit of the King who died or the one who just became King? Because if my Diplo effects my vassal limit I might be at limit with a high diplo score but then I die and become my 3 year old son his diplo is 0 still and thus has a low vassal limit and I would now be over so which of these scores do vassals check when declaring independence, former liege or heir?
 
- A viceroy should be able to plot to make their title hereditary, and that should be a high priority for any viceroy.

Not for modest viceroys ;) And ambitious viceroys should have a higher priority on this.
 
The vasall limit makes sense. Noone can manage to much vasalls without problems...

agreed.

in a roman empire game i was playing i have 3 king vassals (i was impatient) but the rest is all dukes at most. this keeps the power spread, and no one rises up against the caesar except dirty peasants. in fact, i ended up keeping tons of titles to cause opinion penalties in order to cause the kings and a bunch of other people to revolt so i could take away their titles because i don't want king vassals. now that gamey

now with this change, and the fact king vassals have -25 penalty, it will be harder to keep large empires. i like it, and i don't think it's a gamey or arbitrary change. it's unrealistic for me to have dukes from london to baghdad and everyone love me
 
No it doesn't, those are just arbitrary, unrealistic and unhistoric rules. They are just "gamy" and not interesting. It is really outstanding, how Paradox breaks a fantastic game more and more. First you put the ridiculous nerf on duchies and kingdoms and when the people then do the only sensible and stop using them, you come up with an arbitrary vassal limit? Well, how about fixing the problem instead you using duct tape to cover it? I understand that the team is very small by now and thatr you don't expect to make much money from this, but compared to all the stuff EU IV is about to get, that IMPROVES the game, this really reads as a poor attempt to make the game more "difficult" without actually adding to the game and make it more fun.

You'll probably still be able to rule over most of the map. You'll just need to form and empire and allocate kings. Most large states had greater subdivisions than what is currently represented by the duchy: Rome had governors while China had prefects.

This just forces you to create those divisions (it's silly to have 400 counts if you're a king).