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Darkrenown

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I'd actually say there's a number of players out there who just don't know better. Just looking at some of my friends who regularly play on pc, they still don't have a clue about mods or how to rollback. That's much more common then you'd think.

But then the recent changes we are talking about are very specific: who were they made for? I understand improving the game can generally be construed as being for everybody, but I'm also assuming you have no idea whether this vast silent majority that was playing the game and is playing it still needed or wanted or appreciates these changes in any way.

In the end, you only have 2 sources of information to base your development on: your own vision and experience of the game, and the feedback from those who actually bother to give it. I'm thus really nonplussed when you dismiss the reactions on the forum because it represent a small percentage of the player base. You're basically saying: "we don't care how our changes are received, as long as enough people continue to play". That seems such a low target to aim for.

You're reacting to something I didn't say, pointing out to SHK his thread is not conclusive proof the game is ruined is not the same thing as saying I don't care what people on the forum think, I even ended my post with "Now I'm not saying you have no legitimate complaints, and you can of course have whatever opinion you like, but I don't think you can deduce what the majority of players think from your thread." which I thought would make that pretty clear.
 
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I wasn't replying just to those last ones. You have commented recently to other posts that mentioned the negative steam comments and the ruckus on the forum, and those plus these last fews give a distinct impression as to how you see this feedback. And I'm not arguing with the gist of it, i.e., that the vocal complainers represent a small minority of the player base. I was just pointing out that being a vocal minority is not quite the same as being a minority of opinion, and that however small a minority all forum participants represent, it's still your main source of feedback.

Anyhow, let's not get embroiled in this. I'm sure there are many people who would prefer to read you commenting on other issues. Cheers for taking the time.
 
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I personally think this patch did iron away most of the rough edges, and I find I love the added depth. I also think it is right that if I willingly form an alliance I should be made to honor it. The AI honors it, and I have spent years taking advantage of their troops when I really needed it, it is only right that I finally kick in and put in my share, that should be part of the game. Perhaps they could make it so that you can withdraw from the war for a great loss of prestige and a negative opinion of all rulers toward you, that makes sense, but making alliances should be a big decision and one that should not be used to mainly just have the AI fight for you or not attack you when you are conquering most of the world. This adds depth and strategy to the game. I for one am tired of the AI rolling over for my steamrolling army every signal game. I think Paradox is doing a pretty damn good job here, is it perfect? Hell no. Is it better? For me I say undoubtedly yes. Thank you Paradox, I am still still obsessed with CK2. :)

While that may be how it played for you, the rest of the 80% of us did not have armies the steamrolled the game and now this game is one of excess tedium to get nowhere. How do I know this is correct? Look at achievements. Too often Paradox ONLY listens to people who come here and complain about having a large empire. YOU knew your exploits and could have very easily modded them. A much bigger hit to relationship values was a much better solution for the particular issue of neglecting a call to arms. Maybe they'd even become a rival if he'd helped you in the past and you don't answer his call to arms. But now, you've taken away our CHOICES. What's worse, this auto call to arms also hurts the AI by draining their forces way more than before. Or your own wife might bring in 5k forces to stamp out some little revolt and attrition will decimate your forces.

The fact of the matter is this game is no longer fun. I don't see the whimsy and amazing stories I was once did. Fighting with the council is not making interesting things happen for fun. Instead it is an accounting roadblock like doing taxes, and trying to decide what's a deductible and what isn't.

All of these items made for the ultra elite players. There is no "common sense" to how you can benefit being on your liege council and since favors cost so much gold, if you start small that's a gigantic part of the game you can barely use for hundreds of years until 80 gold becomes disposable.

There were better ways to fix exploits, and maybe one of those should have been through mods so as not to alienate or crush the fun out of the game for the rest of us. And no, I don't think "we" the majority should have to roll back and not use the DLC our hard earned cash paid for. In a better world Paradox would not have ignored everyone else at the behest of YOU, and made a better system out of the existing one. Which pretty much everyone agrees would have been much better by the relationship hits I mentioned above.
 
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...In a better world Paradox would not have ignored everyone else at the behest of YOU, and made a better system out of the existing one. Which pretty much everyone agrees would have been much better by the relationship hits I mentioned above.

I want to thank Paradox, for choosing to change this game for me. They are now my very best friend and I love them forever. I am sorry I am daddy's favorite.

Really, sorry you didn't like the changes, I have not liked every change to this game over the years either, but, I find I have learned to live with them and find I still love this game.

Speaking of which, no time to talk right now, gotta enjoy this new patch that I find has improved my fun.
 
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Olaf the Unsure

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But then the recent changes we are talking about are very specific: who were they made for?

Exactly. No one was clamoring for any of these changes. Where was the groundswell of player demand for less choice? Or for globe-spanning, multi-faith, multi-culture coalitions because the player said boo to his neighbor? Or for the reintroduction of the ping-pong army bug repackaged as a feature? And who was asking for these things to be included, not in an optional DLC, but in a patch that alters the base game?

I'd still like to know why they made these changes - what problems did they think they were solving? One can always question the approach to solving a particular problem. But here it's not even clear there was a problem that needed solving.

In the end, you only have 2 sources of information to base your development on: your own vision and experience of the game, and the feedback from those who actually bother to give it. I'm thus really nonplussed when you dismiss the reactions on the forum because it represent a small percentage of the player base. You're basically saying: "we don't care how our changes are received, as long as enough people continue to play". That seems such a low target to aim for.

Developers always hide behind the "if people are buying it then they must like it" dodge. But it takes time and thought - and an interest in the game - to post here, even criticisms. We all have other things we could be doing. This isn't mindless criticism.
 
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I'd actually say there's a number of players out there who just don't know better. Just looking at some of my friends who regularly play on pc, they still don't have a clue about mods or how to rollback. That's much more common then you'd think.
I used to be like that when I first started playing on the computer and even if I didn't like the changes to a game I'd just sit there and roll with them because I was clueless about it. I completely agree with this; I was actually considering stating it, but decided I'd received enough downvotes in one thread. I have a weekly mp group on Steam and we don't run any mods with the game because after the first game where we attempted to use mods I discovered just how many people have no clue how to get mods even though they're literally in the workshop. To a lot of people the development on a game seems like some unknown, far away, faceless entity that makes decisions and design choices on the players behalf.
 
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Under YZAZ I compelled the Byzantine Emperor (Orthodox), through an alliance, to join my war to depose an antipope controlled by the King of Lotharingia. I won the war without raising any levies. I wonder if that is WAD.

Probably? On the flip side, if a super horde invaded the Byzantine empire and they came by to siege all your land first because you had smaller garrisons that would be WAD.

Not to get too far off topic, but how did you swing that Marriage? A favor? I've been having a hard time overcoming the negative prestige penalties in the AI's decision making since Conclave.
 

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Too little, too late. The obvious lack of desire by the design team to give me something worthy of my money means I won't be buying this DLC.
 
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Conclave is almost certainly my single favorite dlc. 2.5.2 made it even better for me. But that's just me. Everyone's free to have their own opinions - even very vocal negative feedback can show how invested someone is in the game's continued success. So it can be good to see, in a way. It means people care.
 
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Conclave is almost certainly my single favorite dlc. 2.5.2 made it even better for me. But that's just me. Everyone's free to have their own opinions - even very vocal negative feedback can show how invested someone is in the game's continued success. So it can be good to see, in a way. It means people care.
Darn, you put things I both equally agree and disagree with in the same post, they ought to add a Mixed button as a tie breaker. I can't decide whether I disagree more strongly with the fact that Conclave is your favorite or if I agree more strongly with the fact that you have a very good valid point about strong vocal feedback, even when negative, shows people's dedication.
 
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Darn, you put things I both equally agree and disagree with in the same post, they ought to add a Mixed button as a tie breaker. I can't decide whether I disagree more strongly with the fact that Conclave is your favorite or if I agree more strongly with the fact that you have a very good valid point about strong vocal feedback, even when negative, shows people's dedication.
Why would you disagree with it being his favorite? That's his opinion, and has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion of the DLC.
 
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richvh

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Um, no. Changing the checksum always disables achievements, but does not invalidate Ironman unless you are trying to play an old Ironman save with a different checksum.
 
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richvh

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Yes it does, but it does not keep you from starting a new Ironman game, just keeps you from getting achievements from said game.
 

Maeldun

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Yes it does, but it does not keep you from starting a new Ironman game, just keeps you from getting achievements from said game.

That's great. I think it's very unwise to start an ironman game with an edited defines.lua unless you know from the start that you can never update your game. Updating will change the checksum and unless that checksum is exactly the same as it was when the game was started, you won't be able to continue. Even if they roll back, I doubt most users will remember which fields to change in the defines.lua to get the same checksum they had when they started their ironman game.
 

richvh

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They have a common/defines folder now, so you can add your edits to it and preserve them across patches in your personal mod without worrying about new fields added in new patches. This also makes it easy to roll back without losing your changes. You should never edit the vanilla script files directly, but always save your edits in your personal mod folder.
 
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