Crusader kings 3
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I seriously think they should do a thing where a DLC goes permanently on half price after two years and goes free after 4. Seriously people will buy it anyway, and this way they get people to buy the base game and to buy their new DLCs and they can also start adding interconnectivity to mechanics they now know everyone will have.
Many patreon games have similar models but on a monthly basis. The people who contribute get the latest path the people who don't get the second to latest one, now that is obviously not possible for a company the size of paradox but if the time is a couple of years then yes I would say it becomes possible.
Also when they make the old DLCs free they can integrate the things they want to into the main game, and thus add connectivity with it, perhaps even get a dry run for trying how that mechanic would do as part of the main game in the sequel.
Paradox is going to learn a hard lesson about over-saturation when they don't generate a fraction of the revenue on their next-gen strategy titles because we're all so invested in the current products.
This is why any sequal should start with all content the prequel ended with that is desired or with a reworked version of that same feature. A CK3 supporting Catholic europeers only would be a disaster.
Yep. The next base game needs to include much of the current game as it is. I'm not re-paying for the option to play us Pagans or for my council to be interactive.
Warfare, diplomacy, economy, family matters, investiture controversy, Normandy problem, crusades...
All those things still aren't worth tossing a few hundred buck's of investment just to pucker up and get ready to pay for alllllllllll the other stuff all over again.
Ok...
Warfare
I don't want a game with a lot more advanced warfare. Really, all I could think of that I would like is maybe some sliders where you could adjust the composition slightly. This to make troops more unique really. All rulers have the same composition. I don't want to micromanage warfare a lot more.
Diplomancy
There is a lack of diplomacy. True! But what can't be fixed on the current platform, if unlocking the DLC dependecy situation CK2 is in? It´s not tecknical limits at least.
Economy
Same as diplo really. What can't be done on current platform?We have seen mods with sofisticated enough economic solutions, or not? Dependency to The Republic and Horse Lords DLC.
Familly matters
Can as well be improved on current platform. Problem is, evereything that exists on the area is locked behind Way Of Life and Conclave DLCs. But there are stuff they could easely add as branches of dynasties, familly perks and feuds and loyal dynasties etc!
Investiture Controversy
I don't see exactly what you meen with this, but sounds easy to add events, politics triggered by pope to gain control over bishop nomination? There should be ways to fiffle with these nominations for all religions without having to revoke chuches. Please tell if I did not understund you correctly.
Normandy problem
Guess this has to do with the recurring request of having multiple lieges? This can be partially fixed with that king of France get a diplo towards king of England to demand some kind of tribute compensating for Normandy is out of the realm. Does not solve the bordergore but how to solve that in a way that a player would understund from watching the map? Is this not some kind of "Special deals" that has happened thuthout history that is impossible to make rules of? I would very much like to see a proper solution to how this could be implemented - even a roughly one would do
Crusades
Well again - I see no technical limitations to greatly improving how Great Holy Wars work. Do you?
I would wish for the next iteration of the game for more "realism". As it stands Ck2 will probably get us only so much: usually I play up to 6 generations of a dynasty before I get a bit of the feeling there is not much else to come and I usually dont abuse the gamey mechanics.
I miss the quirks that come with the interpersonal relationship between liege and vassal. I hate that claims are only transferred into the third generation. I hate that there are no officials (Baillifs or Senechals) that I have to deal with. If a duke of my kingdom inherits another kingdom he is suddenly free to not do homage to me anymore?! This didnt only happen with the Normandy situation. It basically applied to all of the border between France and the HRE.
Instead of maneuvering between two lieges I can just roll with the one I got or go independent. I also cant sell land or grant any privileges.
If I am the Byzantine Emperor I should be able to appoint new Strategi without having the old one going to War everytime just because he can although there are no chances of winning.
The worst thing is that characters look the same in nearly all eras!!! Edward I didnt wear the same stuff as Edward III!!! And give us some kind of parliament - no king ever had to ask his council to grant land to his sonthis is most annoying
My mistress should try to get her father and brothers some titles or offices but the AI always picks the best councillors for the job.
There should be some difference between playing a french Lord or an Arabic Emir that go beyond government and succession.
I love this game like no other but I really hope we get a Ck3 in the next 6 years because everytime the game fucks up I am so annoyed that I put it away for months....
I fear that the modding community is shrinking rapidly and as it stands I am afraid we will end up like the EU Rome forum.
Nontheless I have to get back to fighting the French and get a divorce so I can marry my cousin now, cheers.
I miss the quirks that come with the interpersonal relationship between liege and vassal. I hate that claims are only transferred into the third generation. I hate that there are no officials (Baillifs or Senechals) that I have to deal with. If a duke of my kingdom inherits another kingdom he is suddenly free to not do homage to me anymore?! This didnt only happen with the Normandy situation. It basically applied to all of the border between France and the HRE.
Instead of maneuvering between two lieges I can just roll with the one I got or go independent. I also cant sell land or grant any privileges.
If I am the Byzantine Emperor I should be able to appoint new Strategi without having the old one going to War everytime just because he can although there are no chances of winning.
The worst thing is that characters look the same in nearly all eras!!! Edward I didnt wear the same stuff as Edward III!!! And give us some kind of parliament - no king ever had to ask his council to grant land to his sonthis is most annoying
My mistress should try to get her father and brothers some titles or offices but the AI always picks the best councillors for the job.
There should be some difference between playing a french Lord or an Arabic Emir that go beyond government and succession.
I love this game like no other but I really hope we get a Ck3 in the next 6 years because everytime the game fucks up I am so annoyed that I put it away for months....
I fear that the modding community is shrinking rapidly and as it stands I am afraid we will end up like the EU Rome forum.
Nontheless I have to get back to fighting the French and get a divorce so I can marry my cousin now, cheers.
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Not the makers of Civilization, however. Either do it very differently or include everything from the previous version. CK to CK2 also followed the latter style.
I used to play The Sims, and Sims 1 to 2 was acceptable because we went from 2D to 3D. Sim 2 to 3 introduced an open world in the base game. Sim 3 to 4 lost players, because it drastically cut features and brought the features back to Sims 2 base game era.
As for what I'd want in Ck3, I personally feel that all the different flavor groups like Slavic Pagans, Indians, playable Jewish Kingdoms, and Zunists add next to nothing to the game as is. Rather than re-fleshing out all that content for a base game, I'd rather see the mechanics improved. Less luck-based combat, do something to make roleplaying more dynamic (not the current sort of event dependency that makes each ruler do the same things and have the same goals), make it more character based.
Give us some gameplay options: Paint the map? Sure, you can have that if you want. Full on hardcore roleplay with consequences and hidden traits? Yes, please. Personally, I'd like to see CK3 run something closer to a card game RPG (no, not an actual card game. I smell that comment coming. If you don't play card game RPGs, you can't really know what I'm talking about), rather than a light RTS RPG.
Make kingdoms more like EU3-4, with new and diverse kingdoms popping up. Permanent fragmentation. Migration. Anything to make kingdoms more interesting than what we have now: The same dominant players on the map almost every game. Right now, what kingdoms you have doesn't matter. There's no tradition, nothing to distinguish them from each other; the closest thing is 'I'm Hungarian, you're Slavic, I don't like you being my liege'.
Make the map bigger in a local sense. If I just want to deal with the squabbles of Poland and have no more to do than that, I want to be able to. No forced 'conquest as the objective always, because there's nothing else to do'. If my counties have a bandit hideout problem, let me address that on a small scale and not an event window. If I want to be a baron or a mercenary captain, let me do that.
If I want to show my loyalty to the liege at all times, let me do that and be rewarded for it. Don't have my liege declare on me over a county or expansion claim when I've done nothing but be loyal to him. Give issues some time to be debated out, don't just force war right away on members of your council because there's no other option than to declare war. Couldn't some things be a standing political issue because both parties are unwilling to do anything? Currently, there's no option for that kind of slightly more complex politics.
Make where my character is located matter, with more local events and a shown playing piece on the map. If I'm in the Nile, give me Nile related events. If I'm in Germany, give me German events. Regardless of my culture. If I'm defending my castle, don't just have me moved (or stay there), completely unexplained, when the castle is sieged. If I have to move to meet someone, show it.
But above all, just make it fun and fresh again. I'm way burned out on CK2's gameplay. It's all the same to me after 1000 hours, even with each new expansion that yields a few dozen hours of flavored gameplay.
Give us some gameplay options: Paint the map? Sure, you can have that if you want. Full on hardcore roleplay with consequences and hidden traits? Yes, please. Personally, I'd like to see CK3 run something closer to a card game RPG (no, not an actual card game. I smell that comment coming. If you don't play card game RPGs, you can't really know what I'm talking about), rather than a light RTS RPG.
Make kingdoms more like EU3-4, with new and diverse kingdoms popping up. Permanent fragmentation. Migration. Anything to make kingdoms more interesting than what we have now: The same dominant players on the map almost every game. Right now, what kingdoms you have doesn't matter. There's no tradition, nothing to distinguish them from each other; the closest thing is 'I'm Hungarian, you're Slavic, I don't like you being my liege'.
Make the map bigger in a local sense. If I just want to deal with the squabbles of Poland and have no more to do than that, I want to be able to. No forced 'conquest as the objective always, because there's nothing else to do'. If my counties have a bandit hideout problem, let me address that on a small scale and not an event window. If I want to be a baron or a mercenary captain, let me do that.
If I want to show my loyalty to the liege at all times, let me do that and be rewarded for it. Don't have my liege declare on me over a county or expansion claim when I've done nothing but be loyal to him. Give issues some time to be debated out, don't just force war right away on members of your council because there's no other option than to declare war. Couldn't some things be a standing political issue because both parties are unwilling to do anything? Currently, there's no option for that kind of slightly more complex politics.
Make where my character is located matter, with more local events and a shown playing piece on the map. If I'm in the Nile, give me Nile related events. If I'm in Germany, give me German events. Regardless of my culture. If I'm defending my castle, don't just have me moved (or stay there), completely unexplained, when the castle is sieged. If I have to move to meet someone, show it.
But above all, just make it fun and fresh again. I'm way burned out on CK2's gameplay. It's all the same to me after 1000 hours, even with each new expansion that yields a few dozen hours of flavored gameplay.
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I fully agree with ZechsMerquise73. The one thing I'd add is making modding easy for everyone.
Seriously, one of the best features CK2 has is mods, but each map drawing, event scripting or title editing takes a lot of time and workforce... it would be perfect if Paradox could make a modding tool to allow the community to expand the game even further !
Seriously, one of the best features CK2 has is mods, but each map drawing, event scripting or title editing takes a lot of time and workforce... it would be perfect if Paradox could make a modding tool to allow the community to expand the game even further !
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- Jan 22, 2018
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I fully agree with ZechsMerquise73. The one thing I'd add is making modding easy for everyone.
Seriously, one of the best features CK2 has is mods, but each map drawing, event scripting or title editing takes a lot of time and workforce... it would be perfect if Paradox could make a modding tool to allow the community to expand the game even further !
It's funny you say that, as scripting in-house works the same way as modding
Well, thats your preference, I will stay with mine.
From my perspective, CK2 warfare is showing its age. Terribly. With its gamey tactics, boring sieges (when Europa Universalis IV already rewrote them; note I am NOT talking about Zone of control), ancient naval operations mechanics (note I am NOT talking about naval battles).
We don't know technical limits, that first thing.
There are conceptual limitations. Things that our design allows or does not allow. Looking at Conclave (which was the only try to rewrite diplomacy) I truly doubt we can get good diplomacy model.
Mods are not an answer. Mods are written for specific target in the game target, game is written for its whole target.
Economy is based on vassals. To change economy means to change vassalage system. And this one is core mechanics.
Score system is based on lack of dynastic branches. Adding branches means all hard research done for historical dynasties goes to trash can.
As for family ties, Its one of that ideas I just cannot stand. In CK2 smallest playable entity is character, not family. If there is some kind of four-sided civil war and some guy kill your father, allowing you to claim throne and de facto win civil war (after some clean-up), why should you gain feud against that guy?
Overdependency on events is black death of this game.
I believe noone can say better what investiture controversy should be, than devs themselves: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/five-years-of-crusader-kings-ii.999683/ (at the end of the post).
Can it be done on existing design. Probably. If you give pope much stronger agency, de facto making him one of the strongest and most unplayable characters on the map. And if you rewrite how non-teritorial relations works. And how territorial relations works.
Overdependency on events is black death of this game.Normandy problem
Guess this has to do with the recurring request of having multiple lieges? This can be partially fixed with that king of France get a diplo towards king of England to demand some kind of tribute compensating for Normandy is out of the realm. Does not solve the bordergore but how to solve that in a way that a player would understund from watching the map? Is this not some kind of "Special deals" that has happened thuthout history that is impossible to make rules of? I would very much like to see a proper solution to how this could be implemented - even a roughly one would do
Normandy cannot be solved as special case, for the single reason its not special case. What if some random duke somewhere in the world inherit kingdom and go independent? What if Normandy never took control over England and stay French vassal?
No. 'Dont use events where you should use mechanics, don't create exceptions where you should create rules'.
Yes, at least one. Too much dependency on land (understood as land belonging to the Crown, either directly or through vassals). So award for winning crusade have to be land. So you cannot really create independent Kingdom of Jerusalem, as it kinda happened historically.
It's funny you say that, as scripting in-house works the same way as modding
So, making an easily editable base would be great both for DLCs and mods, right?
You are concerning yourself with something superfluous. It doenst matter if CK3 lets you play as indian buddhist.
We have a lot of very important mechanics created through DLC (retinues, favours, prosperity, societes, etc) , but they cant be futher upgraded through DLC in CK2. You cant have Conclave 2, Legacy of Rome 2, etc, as the devs already said they wont mettle with the game core mechanics after conclave.
You need to make a core game that is "upgradable": retinues, favours, propsperity, societies, etc all belong in the core game. That way, any DLC about the Mongols (for example) can create unique societies, retinues, favours unique to them. Different religions and special cultures must be added in a DLC.
If EAxis made CK3, you would have the ability to play the king of France with the base game. You'd have to make all the other characters playable by buying DLC at $10 a pop.
But don't mind me, I'm just one of many simmers who are very, very unhappy with what has happened to what used to be a great game franchise. (Or why I will never buy Sims 4, or indeed any "Origin-only" game.)
I´m aware of this. DLC independency is the biggest stop sign for developing existing functionality further. This is probably the main or even only reason devs has said what you say they have
There is minimal tecknologicall reasons for a CK3-Loads of stuff can be done - but without creating a new baseline, including all existing functionality without any DLC independency(your ability pick and choise both what to buy and what to enable at will), "DLC- touched" functions will not be further developed in a paid DLC.
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@PK_AZ
I like the ability mod, but rarely play with them myself.
However, mods can show how flexible game configuration is and hint of what could be done on the platform if given the dev support it needed and break the DLC dependency.
There probably are limitations we are not aware of. Probably.. Even quite likely. But showstoppers?
Everything you want surely can't be solved on this platform. Can agree on that. For me, your extended wichlist is not worth a CK3. I understund it is for you. I fine with that. For me, it should be too much micromanagement to in depth manage warfare, in depth manage different lieges, and above all understund how it works for other rulers. Then add futher depth in investiture, massive investments in economy etc... When should you have time to play the game?
I like the ability mod, but rarely play with them myself.
However, mods can show how flexible game configuration is and hint of what could be done on the platform if given the dev support it needed and break the DLC dependency.
There probably are limitations we are not aware of. Probably.. Even quite likely. But showstoppers?
Everything you want surely can't be solved on this platform. Can agree on that. For me, your extended wichlist is not worth a CK3. I understund it is for you. I fine with that. For me, it should be too much micromanagement to in depth manage warfare, in depth manage different lieges, and above all understund how it works for other rulers. Then add futher depth in investiture, massive investments in economy etc... When should you have time to play the game?
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