Crusader Kings 3 Dev Diary #52 - 1.3 ‘Corvus’ Patch Notes

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

DreadLindwyrm

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Sounds like they're consistent about their bad communications strategy at least then. Thanks for the heads up, I can avoid buying any further Paradox games knowing this.

Patch was always going to drop friday closing time Sweden, after they'd had a week of free QA at the playerbase's expense. They just don't care enough about the pain the bug is causing to move the hotfix release forward, easier for them to do it all in one go - who cares if the DLC is functioning for days after release in the meantime.

Also I can't imagine how complex the issue is seeing as how it was perfectly functioning recently. If it really takes them this long to work out how to undo what they themselves just broke, well that explains a lot.
Have you ever worked in software development?

And would you not find "we'll have a fix by the weekend... woops no, it's going to take another week" to be a *worse* communications strategy?

The bug might not even be as simple as you seem to think, since it depends what they changed to cause it - and what else this might interact with elsewhere.
And as well the hotfix may be to do *several* things, some of which you've not even noticed because they haven't affected your games so far. And even then it still needs to run through the system before it can be given the OK for release.
 
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Have you ever worked in software development?

And would you not find "we'll have a fix by the weekend... woops no, it's going to take another week" to be a *worse* communications strategy?

The bug might not even be as simple as you seem to think, since it depends what they changed to cause it - and what else this might interact with elsewhere.
And as well the hotfix may be to do *several* things, some of which you've not even noticed because they haven't affected your games so far. And even then it still needs to run through the system before it can be given the OK for release.
Yes, I have. No, I don't think it would be a worse communications strategy because it would show that Paradox cared about keeping their player base in the loop about when they would have their game functioning. Even if it had to be pushed back, while I may find it disappointing I'd find their honesty reassuring, and less frustrating than them being totally opaque on when I should expect to play the game.

I imagine this is to draw a comparison to the DD that was announced for possibly January and then delayed to mid Feb. No one in that instance was saying "I wish they didn't communicate with us at all", they were saying they wish Paradox's estimates were more accurate. Being completely silent up until mid-Feb about when a DD was coming would have been a worse option than getting the estimate wrong. That's a worst case scenario though. It really shouldn't be that difficult to fix this because as I said, it's not a hypothetical they had a fully functioning system in place literally days ago. I don't believe the changes they made to raiding are that complex or essential to side systems that they're going to create a ton of knock on bugs by fixing it. Even if it was possible, I find it unlikely those knock on bugs are capable of being as annoying as this one is.
 
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DreadLindwyrm

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Yes, I have. No, I don't think it would be a worse communications strategy because it would show that Paradox cared about keeping their player base in the loop about when they would have their game functioning. Even if it had to be pushed back, while I may find it disappointing I'd find their honesty reassuring, and less frustrating than them being totally opaque on when I should expect to play the game.

I imagine this is to draw a comparison to the DD that was announced for possibly January and then delayed to mid Feb. No one in that instance was saying "I wish they didn't communicate with us at all", they were saying they wish Paradox's estimates were more accurate. Being completely silent up until mid-Feb about when a DD was coming would have been a worse option than getting the estimate wrong. That's a worst case scenario though. It really shouldn't be that difficult to fix this because as I said, it's not a hypothetical they had a fully functioning system in place literally days ago. I don't believe the changes they made to raiding are that complex or essential to side systems that they're going to create a ton of knock on bugs by fixing it. Even if it was possible, I find it unlikely those knock on bugs are capable of being as annoying as this one is.
I guess you missed the stink last time they missed a patch/release deadline and were accused of "lying" to their customer base.

And great. You don't believe they've done something complicated. Well done. I'm sure you're absolutely right, and that it can't be something complicated, or that touches on other code at all.
And if it *did* break something else to fix it, even if they're not as annoying to you as this one is, then people **really** start to complain about fixes breaking things that weren't broken before the hotfix. It doesn't have to be a ton either, just another highly visible bug that affects enough people.
 
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DreadLindwyrm

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Plus, I don't see how
We are working on a Hotfix, and though we don't have any set date for it, we will push it as soon as we can.
Our team will keep you in the loop
is being totally opaque on the matter.

"We're working on it, we'll tell you when we know when it'll be ready" is *reasonably* open - and even has them saying they'll keep us in the loop when there's information.
 
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I guess you missed the stink last time they missed a patch/release deadline and were accused of "lying" to their customer base.

And great. You don't believe they've done something complicated. Well done. I'm sure you're absolutely right, and that it can't be something complicated, or that touches on other code at all.
And if it *did* break something else to fix it, even if they're not as annoying to you as this one is, then people **really** start to complain about fixes breaking things that weren't broken before the hotfix. It doesn't have to be a ton either, just another highly visible bug that affects enough people.
If we're talking about the same thing, I literally mentioned it in the post you're replying to.

The fact of the matter is neither of us is capable of knowing how complex the issue is without being on the team ourselves, but it's also not my job to make excuses for Paradox. I'm a customer who wants what they paid for to be functioning, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yes, people would be annoyed if a patch introduced bugs - I'm glad you recognise this.

Saying you're going to keep us in the loop is not the same thing as actually keeping us in the loop. I've repeatedly said I'm thankful for their teams acknowledging the issue, but acknowledging the issue is not the same thing as fixing it or being transparent about when the game will be playable. It's been days since the bug was acknowledged and we know nothing more about when it will be fixed than we did since then.
 
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From the game files, it looks like this is:

Code:
    health = 8

Isn't this an insane amount of base health? More than any character could possibly naturally have? Let alone a 52 year old?

I get that Haesteinn is a fun meme, but does he really need to be the healthiest man to ever have lived in addition to having an absurdly huge army?
 
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DreadLindwyrm

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If we're talking about the same thing, I literally mentioned it in the post you're replying to.
No, we're talking about very different things there.


The fact of the matter is neither of us is capable of knowing how complex the issue is without being on the team ourselves, but it's also not my job to make excuses for Paradox. I'm a customer who wants what they paid for to be functioning, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Sure. You're also the one claiming that it *can't* be complicated or impact on other systems.

It's also hardly a gamebreaking issue. It's inconvenient, it's costing a lot of gold, and it needs to be fixed. But it doesn't stop the game being a "functioning" one. Unlike (for example) the reported bugs where people are being ejected to observer mode on character death, the guy who lost the game when his dynastic heir inherited and he got a game over, unexpected CTD on particular dates and so on. Those are **far** higher priority - and possibly also intended for this hotfix if their solutions are quick and simple.


Yes, people would be annoyed if a patch introduced bugs - I'm glad you recognise this.
You have no idea how bad it gets around here when a bug fix breaks other things. It's had actual threats to developers come up before now.


Saying you're going to keep us in the loop is not the same thing as actually keeping us in the loop. I've repeatedly said I'm thankful for their teams acknowledging the issue, but acknowledging the issue is not the same thing as fixing it or being transparent about when the game will be playable. It's been days since the bug was acknowledged and we know nothing more about when it will be fixed than we did since then.
And it's been two working days - that's long enough to collate that there are problems and get a priority list, and *start* work on them.
Once they've chased down what's causing the "must fix" bugs and the "can fix in a few minutes" bugs, they can get those out of the way, and give an estimate. Transparency would require them to *have* that estimate, in the first place.
 
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No, we're talking about very different things there.



Sure. You're also the one claiming that it *can't* be complicated or impact on other systems.

It's also hardly a gamebreaking issue. It's inconvenient, it's costing a lot of gold, and it needs to be fixed. But it doesn't stop the game being a "functioning" one. Unlike (for example) the reported bugs where people are being ejected to observer mode on character death, the guy who lost the game when his dynastic heir inherited and he got a game over, unexpected CTD on particular dates and so on. Those are **far** higher priority - and possibly also intended for this hotfix if their solutions are quick and simple.



You have no idea how bad it gets around here when a bug fix breaks other things. It's had actual threats to developers come up before now.



And it's been two working days - that's long enough to collate that there are problems and get a priority list, and *start* work on them.
Once they've chased down what's causing the "must fix" bugs and the "can fix in a few minutes" bugs, they can get those out of the way, and give an estimate. Transparency would require them to *have* that estimate, in the first place.
Right, well I can only speak of what I've seen. It's unfortunate if they've had over the top reactions to these things in the past, but that doesn't change any of their base obligations as a business to their customers.

You have a very strange definition of functioning to me. The game certainly didn't feel very functionable to me when my family was being carted off with zero counterplay, or when I played as a vassal and had basically partially toggled god mode. So far it seems this is the bug the majority of the player base is effected and upset by, so I'd say that gives it plenty of priority. It's literally the most viewed and upvoted bug report on that subforum's front page right now, for what that's worth.

I never claimed it couldn't be complicated or have an impact on other systems, go read my post again. My giving an opinion (that I stand by as being reasonable) on the potential complexity of the bug is not the same as making an authoritative statement on the matter. If Paradox wants to set the record straight and talk about the complexity of the bug they're more than welcome to, but it's purely charitable thinking at this point to believe there's any evidence that this is more than a simple bug. If you really want to engage in this sort of speculation, why don't you explain some of the knock on effects you think fixing this is likely to have and why they're worse to deal with than this bug (assuming Paradox actually playtests and it's not just a straight CTD).

There is zero reason they need to trace down other bugs before being able to fix this one. This isn't a console game, they don't have to pay for each patch they release to be certified. Two working days is more than enough time for them to have checked it out and at least give an ETA on a hotfix imo. If you'd like to continue playing Paradox employee and tell me why that's an unreasonable expectation you're welcome to but it won't change my or the other thousands of players disappointed with Paradox's situation.

All of this discussion about how hard the bug is to fix is just ridiculous seeing as how easy to discover it is - it never should have made it into the game. Every second longer that it is is just further embarrassment for the company and that's not arguable.
 
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Oh and also it seems the big reddit thread discussing this bug has now been hidden from the front page/top posts of /r/crusaderkings so that no one new can see it. If Paradox had anything to do with that (seems like a reasonable assumption with the amount of thread locking/post deleting their mods do over here, including a similar thread about this bug yesterday) then could you guys maybe knock that off? I get that you don't want your shiny new DLC looking bad to all the new players coming in to try the game for free, but as previously mentioned silencing criticism of your product will only lead to an echo chamber and piss people off further. Especially if you're extending those tactics beyond your own forum to an ostensibly third party community for the game.

Maybe some reddit mod did it of their own accord, but your own history on this forum in the past weeks leads people to naturally expect otherwise.

Edit: Reddit mods said it was them for some asinine reason so turns out I am just a conspiracy theorist. Still, you should stop locking threads about it here outside duplicates in the bug reports. I get wanting a tidy forum or whatever but it's not a good look, maybe hire some PR guys or something.
 
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I hope everyone gives the devs a break, this is game of the decade easily.

DEVS-- Thank you so much for this game. I have put in hundreds of hours recently and have lost much sleep playing it. Some minor issues- The game is auto saving like crazy for me right now, I'm playing iron man from a week old save pre patch. I turned on save every 5 years in the menu but it saves much more frequently, I even tried turning auto save off to no avail. Any suggestions? What events trigger saves in game?

Also, should insularists not want to occupy Constantinople? Insularists do not get the holder bonus from the Hagia Sophia, I think that in reality they should. I have seen the cathedral first hand, most definitely a holy destination for any Christian or Muslim.

Also regarding demand conversion- It would be great to have a select all check box when demanding conversions. I spend half my time converting my vassals lol. But i play having 65 vassals all the time, I do not know if that is the wrong way to play instead of having just a few.

An easier way to grant vassals and titles would be amazing as well. Like have it follow some sort of micro orders- like dish them out to anglo insular small army close family etc prioritized and make them sort of even by always buffing the weakest of them up so they cant claim throne and wont have the man power for independence. I spend a huge amount of my time sorting out vassals and titles. Missing a lot of action and dialogue.

Another bug, sometimes its letting me click into declare war on other toons but the reason and target screen has no options it is just a blank screen that pops up.

- What traits prevent you from recruiting adults to your court from the dungeon? For instance, they have claims I want to press.
1616145262964.png
 
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Lysistrata

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Didn't see it in the patch notes but thanks for fixing the Scots melting pot so it doesn't consume all of Northumbria when it fires.
 

IndigoRage

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from the front page/top posts of /r/crusaderkings
IIRC that subreddit is one of the only major Paradox subreddits that isn't directly controlled by Paradox, and is out of the moderation network of r/ParadoxPlaza, r/eu4, etc.
 
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Viridianus

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It sounds like there is zero sense of urgency and you're treating this as just another minor bug, rather than the game breaking show stopper to the new product that you've sold that it is.
As @DreadLindwyrm showed above:
It's also hardly a gamebreaking issue. It's inconvenient, it's costing a lot of gold, and it needs to be fixed. But it doesn't stop the game being a "functioning" one. Unlike (for example) the reported bugs where people are being ejected to observer mode on character death, the guy who lost the game when his dynastic heir inherited and he got a game over, unexpected CTD on particular dates and so on. Those are **far** higher priority - and possibly also intended for this hotfix if their solutions are quick and simple
This is a relatively minor bug compared to various versions of game-over or CTD. Thus it is unclear how one characterize it as a "critical issue":
Yeah, I do. Critical issues aren't handled lackadaisically and with zero communication.
And, of course, they will fix multiple bugs in one go and playtest it before, because any fix anywhere can break something somewhere else and must be tested (in case of code/script division - especially if it's on coding side, as this one is likely to be, otherwise some smart person would have been running around here by now with "here, this is literally what must be changed" - like with some other bugs). Having them naming an arbitrary (and by the time of announcement it could not help being arbitrary) date of release of hotfix would be worse for everyone.
 
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SauronGorthaur

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This is a relatively minor bug compared to various versions of game-over or CTD. Thus it is unclear how one characterize it as a "critical issue"
From the PR perspective? Breaking raiding in the very flavor pack/patch combo that has (near laser) focus on Vikings and their raiding culture and then releasing it in that manner even though the bug becomes apparent within minutes of starting the game anywhere near anything that raids (including non-Norse raiders) ain't exactly a good look.
 
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Viridianus

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From the PR perspective? Breaking raiding in the very flavor pack/patch combo that has (near laser) focus on Vikings and their raiding culture and then releasing it in that manner even though the bug becomes apparent within minutes of starting the game anywhere near anything that raids (including non-Norse raiders) ain't exactly a good look.
Given how back in CK2 it was quite unlikely to ever catch up with raiders at least in some versions, unless you frequent forums it would take quite some time to understand this is a bug not a feature.
 
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durbal

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As @DreadLindwyrm showed above:

This is a relatively minor bug compared to various versions of game-over or CTD. Thus it is unclear how one characterize it as a "critical issue":

And, of course, they will fix multiple bugs in one go and playtest it before, because any fix anywhere can break something somewhere else and must be tested (in case of code/script division - especially if it's on coding side, as this one is likely to be, otherwise some smart person would have been running around here by now with "here, this is literally what must be changed" - like with some other bugs). Having them naming an arbitrary (and by the time of announcement it could not help being arbitrary) date of release of hotfix would be worse for everyone.

When someone's drowning it doesn't help to describe the water. In other words, their process and way of handling this is what people have a problem with. Replying with a description of how they're handling it doesn't absolve the problem.

Anyway, looks like they opened a beta branch to fix the issue. Good solution.
 
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Viridianus

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In other words, their process and way of handling this is what people have a problem with. Replying with a description of how they're handling it doesn't absolve the problem.
If you have a problem with not having immediate hotfixes for each bug as soon as it is revealed (potentially - likely - breaking something else) that sounds very much not Pdx problem because, again as stated above, they know that having them is going to create worse backlash.
 
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DreadLindwyrm

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When someone's drowning it doesn't help to describe the water. In other words, their process and way of handling this is what people have a problem with. Replying with a description of how they're handling it doesn't absolve the problem.

Anyway, looks like they opened a beta branch to fix the issue. Good solution.
To take your analogy further, they should be rescuing the person who is *actually* drowning before the person who is just having difficulty.

It also does no good to rush in to save someone without collecting the necessary rescue equipment. Or indeed taking a moment to look at the water and see whether the person is drowning because they don't know how to swim, or because their leg is trapped beneath the water, and the tide is rising.
 
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demondragon24

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  • Men-at-Arms, Special Troops and Mercenaries now have travel time and, like Levies, have a penalty to disband/re-raise during wars. Travel time is based on the distance to the realm capital. This should effectively stop being able to ‘teleport’ MaA across the map

While I understand this change for the sake of balance to the game. this makes it difficult to have just an army of your good troops. Can we get this as a game rule instead or buttons that allow us to raise only certain types of troops? ie a "Raise All Mercenaries", "Raise All Men at Arms", and "Raise Holy Order"? As it stands now if I want to fight with only my quality troops I have to painstakingly separate out each individual troop and knight from the levies into a new army and it makes going to war a terrible drag on the gameplay.
 
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